Dream shop?

[cornerstone]

I’m sure many of you have a dream shop. Like 67ChevyRedneck is currently building. A place where you can have enough space to spread out your work, maybe a lift or even a spray booth. How about a wood shop along side your wrenchin’ spot? I want one too.

I used to have a 20x30 with an 8’ ceiling on a slab that I built in my back yard at our last house. It was great, but we sold that place and moved out of town to have more land. We’ve been here over 10 years and still, no shop for me. 😖

I did build a pole barn a few years ago, and it is plenty big enough to use it for a shop, but it has a dirt floor still, and it’s farther away than I’d prefer...probably a lame excuse. I used telephone poles to build it and slapped an old used tin roof on top. It has a second story hay loft, because at the time we were considering getting into small scale farming and raising cattle or hogs. That structure is 40’ x 48’ with a 12 foot ceiling and doesn’t have electricity run to it.

I would like to build a shop thats 40’ x 30’ into the side of a hill so that the majority of the building is underground. I don’t need to tell y’all how hot it gets here in Texas. The place where I want it to be is currently where my well house resides, so I already have electricity there. I keep having this thought of having a garden on the roof of it, since it would be in full sunlight and, more importantly, that would just be the bees knees!

Then reality kicks in and I start thinking about stuff way beyond my pay grade like... how heavy is a few feet of dirt?

Hire an engineer you say? Nahhh. All the men in my family are engineers, well, except me. I figure some of their know how has to be in my blood too. I’ll just look at really strong structures (think bridges) and build it stronger.

I’ve been stockpiling steel beams, steel trusses, heavy square tubing and the like as I happen to find sweet deals. I’ve been drawing up some different variations of what I think won’t collapse and crush me or even worse.. my C10!

So if y’all don’t mind me throwing up some of my building ideas along with some pictures maybe you can help steer me in the right direction and perhaps save me a ton of work and cash-ola. Please feel free to comment, I’d love to get all the free advice I can get!!!

[Steeveedee]

If you want to build a structure that meets the building code, just go to your building and safety department and ask for the form. That form has all the information you will need to build an earthquake-resistant structure that is properly insulated, etc. I am in a tract home and don't have enough property to make a shop like I would want. I'd need at least 4000 square feet for it, and the house is 2100 square feet on about 6100 square feet. My "shop" is a portion of a 2-car garage that no cars can even be parked in. I was promised a shop when we moved to this house 17 years ago. I should have done more research, but I was too busy working overtime, making the money that my wife wanted to use on this house for that. My bad.

[mongocanfly]

when I built mine I started to do a 40x60..i downgraded to 35x50...wish I had done the 40x60 or bigger now..already added a 24x40 side shed on the back and built a 25x50 pole barn...never enough it seems..
I would have to rethink the dirt over the top of the building...the soil is gonna be extremely heavy...and your gonna have to support it twice..once at ground level and again on the roof...add a heavy rain and that weight will multiply quickly... and as for a garden on top youd have to have fairly deep dirt to keep it from burning up your plants...my septic tank has 18" of dirt over it and the grass on top will die during the summer months..doing it into the side of the hill should work good though...I just wouldn't make the roof support that much load....I know npled has his in the side of a hill
if I ever have a do-over I'm gonna do at least a 40x80

[The Rocknrod]

When I went to the county office they told me it's not their job to dictate what you build on your own property. God I love Texas.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by The Rocknrod

it's not their job to dictate what you build on your own property. God I love Texas.

I couldn't agree more! Living outside city limits has so many more advantages to me. We bought this place about 10 years ago and now I'm spoiled. I'll never move toward a big city again. As they say in Fort Worth, "lifes too short to live in Dallas"

[cornerstone]

I went down to the pole barn to get some materials for a roof repair today and while I was there I snapped a couple pics. I was mistaken, it’s not 48x40, it’s 48x36. I tooled around a bit and got to thinking what a freakin slob I have been. It makes me re-think the idea of undertaking a large project (large for me) when I already have enough covered space. I’m going to try and keep my mind open about making the existing space workable. If I do make that my “dream shop” a lot of changes need to occur. A short list would be electricity, a slab floor, exterior walls that are insulated, air conditioning, change out the old used tin roof or at least plug the holes, garage doors, perhaps sliding doors, etc. One thing is for sure, if I were to build a shop up by my house, all of those listed things would also have to be done, so the truth is fixing up the barn would be faster and cheaper.

[mongocanfly]

if your shop is like mine in the sun ,then youll definatly want to insulate the roof...best way is remove the tin..

[67ChevyRedneck]

28x52 isn't my dream shop, that's at least 4x bigger. That's literally as large as I can go where it will actually fit on my property and still have a driveway and way out of the back.

Get a floor poured in that barn and close it in.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

28x52 isn't my dream shop, that's at least 4x bigger.

Yeah, sorry about the wording I used when I referenced you Jesse. I really should have titled it “dreaming OF A shop”. I think we all can agree bigger is always better. Mainly I was trying to get across the thought that you’ve been in the planning stage for a good while now and it’s like a dream come true when you get to finally start the project.

That’s kind of where I’m at. Just trying to decide which shop to build now. I still really like the underground idea because of the built in FREE AC, and the proximity to the house. I can live without the roof being fully covered in dirt for my garden idea, I just think that would be an added bonus.

About 6-7 years ago I did a bunch of dirt work in the spot I want to build it. I rented a backhoe and cut into the hillside so that the pad size is 46 wide by roughly 60 deep. The back wall of the cut out is about 15 feet high. It’s next to where my well house sits now, on the same plane as that small building. At the moment we use it for additional parking and I have an storage box with C10 parts over in the back corner.

Before I make a final decision on whether to fix up the pole barn or start the new project in the hillside I will definitely get the barn cleaned out and do a cost analysis on finishing it enough that I will enjoy using it. That should keep me busy for a while ... I tend to be a project starter and not so much a finisher, so a clean barn is the least I can do before I make another giant mess. Thank y’all for letting me air out my dirty laundry!

[67ChevyRedneck]

No worries, I didn't take any offense to it. Just like you can't say "my truck is done" (because they never are) no shop, no matter how large, will ever be big enough. We'll always find more to fill it up with!

I'd be concerned with a shop below grade. Lots of moisture in dirt. I'd seal the crap out of the walls and run a dehumidifier 24-7.

Now 46x60... that would be some dang good usable space!!! How do you even do a roof that wide? I guess it would have to be like your barn, a popped up center roof with a pitched roof on each side.

[cornerstone]

46’x60’ is the total size of the flat surface area of the ground that I cut out of the hillside. The joists that I have are only 40’. I figured I would need at least 3’ on each side to dig out for piers to hold the weight, hence the width of 46’. If I go with a 40’ deep building that will give me a 20’ entrance in the front. So this is my plan for the construction method for the roof. Basically build a super HD carport and then pour a slab inside and add block walls. The main support would come from the columns and steel structure but the block walls would be additional support. Again, I’m certainly no engineer, and I’d like to hear whatever your opinion is. Especially you guys with heavy construction experience. You know who you are!

[mongocanfly]

I would seriously get that looked at by a engineer before you committ to it...theres a lot of calculation to do when it becomes load bearing...you sure wouldnt want it to cave in on your toys...

[67ChevyRedneck]

That's beyond my ability/memory. I've become specialized in site design (zero building stuff), I haven't designed a structural steel member in over 20 years. I was thinking of a stick build, never thought about a steel building.

That's going to need some serious design work. For comparison, a cubic foot of snow weights 10 lbs. A cubic foot of dirt can weigh from 75 lbs dry to 110+ lbs wet. Make that 2-3' deep to maintain a garden and you're going to need some serious structural design. At 1' deep a 40*60 roof would have 264,000 lbs on it wet, make that 2' deep and it would be carrying 528,000 lbs, plus the weight of any crops and the live load of any tractor equipment or anything else that would roll over it. That's some serious weight.

[1976gmc20]

No offense, but that plan looks like an absolute disaster waiting to happen.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

No offense, but that plan looks like an absolute disaster waiting to happen.

None taken... actually made me grin from ear to ear. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve come real close to profound bone headedness.

How do y’all feel if I didn’t cover the roof with a slab but just standard R-panel, and spray foam insulate it? No garden up there, no parking of vehicles etc.? Thanks for all the input for sure.
Brian

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

How do y’all feel if I didn’t cover the roof with a slab but just standard R-panel, and spray foam insulate it? No garden up there, no parking of vehicles etc.? Thanks for all the input for sure.
Brian

Actually, that's almost exactly the same as our hay shed/horse barn.

We used 6x8 and 6x6 posts on 12' spacing, and beams across the top laterally, with three rows of 2x6 rafters. OSB and metal on top of that. Lower two thirds of it is hay storage, tack room, and aisle, while the other third is three 12x12 "run in" stalls for the horses.

It wasn't what I had planned (a gable barn) but there was a 12x16' shed sitting where we wanted the barn to be, so instead of moving it or tearing it down we just built around it creating the huge wedge of cheese effect. I already had a trailer load of 6x8 timbers and the shed became the tack room. The bonus is all the roof water runs off into the road ditch and the extra tall "doors" for the horses to come into their stalls.

You will have to come up with a plan for all the water that runs off your shed roof into the gap between the back of your building and the hillside

Edit: BTW, our building is only about six feet high inside at the back and twelve feet high at the front ( 2/12 pitch ). This was determined by the pitch and height of the existing shed. Did I mention "cheap" ?

[cornerstone]

Well guys, I'm bringing this back up again, since I have a new reason to build this thing. My daughter is engaged to be wed this coming October, and she has it set in her head that she wants to have the wedding at our place and have the reception in the pole barn. If I could only pry that phone out of her hand and keep her off pintrest....

I'm gonna need a space to keep stuff covered while I get the barn ready to pour a cement floor... apparently a dirt floor is too redneck for my millennial daughter and wife??? A couple important changes to the design plan, which I hope will take the stress out of how much weight this thing will need to bear... (pun fully intended).

Let's call it an overbuilt carport for the time being. In the future I may close it in, but for my head to be able to wrap around this and actually get it done, I need to simplify the plan. I now want it to be a flat roof design, with no intention to put anything on top... well, hopefully solar panels in the future, but with the size of the structural steel I will be using, I can't imagine that will even approach being problematic. All I'm dead set on is a ceiling tall enough to have a lift. I will most likely build this thing with a gravel floor initially and add a slab later when I know my time constraints have been met.

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

Actually, that's almost exactly the same as our hay shed/horse barn.

You will have to come up with a plan for all the water that runs off your shed roof into the gap between the back of your building and the hillside

I'll install gutters that direct the water to the sides and into downspouts that feed into a runoff area.

Did I mention "cheap" ?
I love cheap! So far I only have 1500. bucks into the steel. I may need a few more beams, but I have a great source for recycled materials.

I plan on moving forward as soon as I can. One thing is for sure, I've got my work cut out for me.

[cornerstone]

I scored some more structural steel today. I bought four more 7” wide x 14” tall x 5/16 thick 20 foot long I beams, used but straight. They came from a demolished bridge. Best price I managed to find for new steel was about $3500. I scooped these up for $540. I’ve bought from this outfit in the past also. It’s called Repurposed Materials, and they have all kinds of cool stuff. I have no affiliation with the business, but thought you guys might benefit from what they do. They have several locations. The last time I went there I ended up with nearly 5000 feet of high quality 3/4” rope still on the spools. I think I paid 80 bucks? I may make a rope bridge just for the fun of it.

I feel better about this project now that I don't plan on covering up the roof with a few feet of dirt. I believe it will be way stronger than I will ever need. I hope to start preparing the area and marking out where my piers need to be dug out. I plan to use my tractors 3 point pto post hole digger attachment to take out most of the dirt.

[Stephen Reader]

Probably not budget friendly for what you are planning as far as the underground garage but used railroad flat cars make great bridges and/or roofs, 89 feet long and 8'6" wide with a 268,000 pound capacity supported at either end.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by Stephen Reader

Probably not budget friendly for what you are planning as far as the underground garage but used railroad flat cars make great bridges and/or roofs, 89 feet long and 8'6" wide with a 268,000 pound capacity supported at either end.

Thanks for the info... Boy that’d be quite the bunker. Since I’m not going to cover the roof with anything heavy now, I’m feeling good about the design.

I am curious though, do you know how much those sell for?

[joedoh]

my "dream shop" is just a dream. for now I will keep bumping elbows in my 19.5x19.5 attached garage, it keeps me honest about what I can keep and what needs to go away, what tools I can invest in vs what I want.

they say you cant kennel train a puppy in a kennel that is twice his size because if they have the room to crap in it they will. well, learn to work in a small shop and you will never have crap cluttering you up! my father in law had a 30x50 and he could get one car in at a time, the rest was just stuff, stacked high and deep. my brother got a 3 car garage with his house, in 30 years he hasnt parked in it, its full of stuff. I am an offender too, I bought a rental property with a 30x50 steel building, it is currently full of 6 trucks and ancillary parts.

[Stephen Reader]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

Thanks for the info... Boy that’d be quite the bunker. Since I’m not going to cover the roof with anything heavy now, I’m feeling good about the design.

I am curious though, do you know how much those sell for?

We sold 6 ex army flat cars at auction for scrap a few months ago for $1300 each, their light (unloaded) weight was 101,650 pounds, the buyer told me by the time he brought in his equipment and labor to cut them up he made about $500 per car profit.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by joedoh

my "dream shop" is just a dream. for now I will keep bumping elbows in my 19.5x19.5 attached garage, it keeps me honest about what I can keep and what needs to go away, what tools I can invest in vs what I want.

they say you cant kennel train a puppy in a kennel that is twice his size because if they have the room to crap in it they will. well, learn to work in a small shop and you will never have crap cluttering you up! my father in law had a 30x50 and he could get one car in at a time, the rest was just stuff, stacked high and deep. my brother got a 3 car garage with his house, in 30 years he hasnt parked in it, its full of stuff. I am an offender too, I bought a rental property with a 30x50 steel building, it is currently full of 6 trucks and ancillary parts.

Excellent point. My brother has a 30x40 so full of crap he had to build a mezzanine to store more crap. I do believe I have been trained by working out of our 2 car garage for the last 16 years. I'm starting to get excited and envisioning all the space I will have for tool storage. Everything will have a place. Plus, I'll gain some points from my awesome wife who will finally have a garage to park in.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by Stephen Reader

We sold 6 ex army flat cars at auction for scrap a few months ago for $1300 each, their light (unloaded) weight was 101,650 pounds, the buyer told me by the time he brought in his equipment and labor to cut them up he made about $500 per car profit.

Wow. That would have been a sweet deal for sure. Oh well, ya can't win them all.

[davischevy]

Get started on the pole barn, and I will be happy. Get a bid for a floor and report back please.