Need advice, accident today!! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

teeitup · 12-01-2003, 08:18 PM

Well I had a accident today, I was in this guys junk yard where I'm buying all this stuff, moving stuff around on a skid loader and hit a transformer that was mounted in the ground, tore it up bad and BIG BANG!! This guy had stuff stacked on it and around it, NEVER told me anything about the transformer being there. The electric guy told me it was my responsibility and I would have to pay the $3000 to his company, they took my name, address and phone #. The owner told me on the phone it was my fault I should of seen it but as I said I was never told there was a live transformer in the middle of this junk, SURPRISED the HELL out of me, lucky my father in law wasn't standing right beside it or he would of been killed probably. I'm going to wait and see what happens with the bill, I may be in a lawsuit before I'm done. Anybody have any ideas??? Thanks, BAD DAY here!!! Randy

Castiron9 · 12-01-2003, 08:25 PM

Excuse me but how the hell are you resposible for it if you were unaware that it was there.It seems to me that some of the blame lays on the owner of junk yard for not informing you that he had a bunch of stuff piled on top it.And would'nt the electricity Co. have some fault for not having the transformer clearly marked????.Seems to me that if you are partially responsible it should be a 3 way split on damages...What if someone had been seriously hurt..could'nt you hold them responsible..Sorry for the long post just my 5 Cents ...

ChevLoRay · 12-01-2003, 08:25 PM

If they had a live transformer in an area that is confining, I'd think seriously about contacting OSHA. They have some serious rules about fencing them off to limit the possibility of someone contacting it, as you did. For them to have stuff stacked around it, just adds to the seriousness.

I think, that dropping the "I'm gonna call OSHA to see what they say about where the transformer was" will go a long way toward making them drop their claim for damages. If the transformer was put there by the utility company, shame on them.

If it was up on a pole, it would have been different. But, for it to be "on the ground", just isn't right. No fencing. No barriers. Not right. I guarantee that OSHA has rules on it. Check www.osha.gov for the ruling that they should be following.

griesel72 · 12-01-2003, 08:28 PM

Randy,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. If worse comes to worse, i know that when my mom and dad built their new house last year, they were going to need something like 10 poles put in to get to the build site. The electric guys came out and said that at 1600/pole it would be 16000 dollars to get electricity. Well, my dad offered them 4000 to see what they would do, and they took it. Also, see if your liability insurance might cover it. And, you never know, they may never send a bill (they should have insurance for that sort of thing)

Best of luck

David

cableguy0 · 12-01-2003, 08:31 PM

if i were you i would take pictures of the junk around the transformer just so they cant say that your lying seocnd i would contact osha and whoever else might be able to help you. you might also want to call a lawyer and see what they say they will usually give free advice

*dtlilly* · 12-01-2003, 08:48 PM

First off they would have gotten a fake name, addy, and phone # from me.

Go back tomarrow and take some pics of the area around the transformer. If they ask what you are doing it for, tell them they are for your attorney and OSHA. Then start to ask for the land owners information and General Liability insurance info.

I would consult your family attorney and also contact your personal liability insurance carrier, or your general liability carrier.

cheyenne10 · 12-01-2003, 08:49 PM

I agree this could be large OSHA issue. They often investigate accidents like this often considered "near misses". It may not change charges but utility company should be careful on laying blame, if they own the facility (which I bet they do) The utility company also might have an easement for the transformer if it serves other that the owner of the property which it was located. Utility policy most likely states keeping transformer area "clear from debris".

As for the comment about offering the utility less $$ than their estimate for power extension that wouldn't fly around here. Cost of services is born by the customer. Why should other rate payers subsidise those that can afford to live far off the road which is often a luxury. Those of us in town pay less for power extension because length of faclities used to serve us is shorter per customer hookup. Many more agencies are waking up to the common sense rules that we are charged for time required to process something or to serve and avoiding all of us subsidising the rare case.

A little attorney advise can almost always help.

70c10 · 12-01-2003, 08:50 PM

Like cableguy0 said, Take the pictures now!. The guy might not even have his own insurance at the place. Maybe that's why he is blaming you. Ask him if he's insured. Good luck!

frogsmakr · 12-01-2003, 08:52 PM

lawyer

krue · 12-01-2003, 08:57 PM

You definitely need to call a lawyer. Find the crookedest one around and get him on your side.

Lobo'74 · 12-01-2003, 09:03 PM

A good lawyer might well hit them with a counter suit charging that BOTH the land owner AND the unility were neglegent by not having the transformer properly marked and/or fenced off. The good lawyer might then bring up the fact that you could have been killed and that the stress and trauma of you hitting an unmarked and unprotected transformer might have an adverse effect onyou.

I think they are culpable and the unsafe situation was one of THEIR making that you stumbled upon. They should be concerned about what they almost did to you, not the other way around. Get pictures FAST, get a good lawyer, contact OSHA.

Just my humble opinion.

I hope it all comes out OK for you.

ozarkhippie · 12-01-2003, 09:12 PM

Randy with me being in the excavation business I've been in the same boat. The best thing I can tell you is to be calm don't contact the elect co. or mention it to anyone. Let it settle down. Usually the utilty employees talk alot (having fun seeing you worry). If they do talk lawsuit just wait awhile and see how far they intend to go with it, then maybe contact a lawyer. I've delt with alot of different utilty co. and most generaly they all are pretty easy going. I've been into a lot of stuff like you have just done and there have only been a few times they stuck us with a bill and it usually wan't for as much as they could have.

Zeke · 12-01-2003, 10:14 PM

OSHA. Don't know if this applies:
1910.269(k)(2)(i)

In areas not restricted to qualified persons only, materials or equipment may not be stored closer to energized lines or exposed energized parts of equipment than the following distances plus an amount providing for the maximum sag and side swing of all conductors and providing for the height and movement of material handling equipment:

1910.269(k)(2)(i)(A)

For lines and equipment energized at 50 kV or less, the distance is 10 feet (305 cm).

ozarkhippie · 12-01-2003, 10:17 PM

Thats for overhead lines Zeke

*67Fleetsidedream* · 12-01-2003, 10:19 PM

I would wait it out and see if they are bluffing. If they are not hit them with everything you can.... A transformer in a wrecking yard in a recipe for a accident....Glad your OK...

Zeke · 12-01-2003, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ozarkhippie
Thats for overhead lines Zeke

Thanks, wasn't sure OSHA reads like alphabet soup to me.

8.1PWR · 12-01-2003, 10:38 PM

If OSHA doesn't have anything to cover an item like that check zoning. All those big ground transformers I've seen have steel posts around them to keep things like this from happening.

**too much stuff** · 12-01-2003, 11:54 PM

Would his homeowners ins cover something like that? Heck, that is what you pay ins for.

teeitup · 12-02-2003, 12:04 AM

Thanks guys for all the input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was marked on the side, but not the side I hit. I honestly thought it was a dish washer since there are so many of those around there. It really could of been a bad situation if my help was around right then, real scary!!!! I'm taking pics tomorrow. Thanks again Randy

Locutus · 12-02-2003, 01:15 AM

First off let me say you are very very lucky. You are not the one at fault. They landowner is. For one he did not keep the easement around the transformer clear. Second he allowed you to use the skid steer with out properly instructing you on the dangers in his lot. Utimately in a lawsuit the utility company can only name the landowner. The land owner would have to sue you and that would be a very shakey case indeed. Especially if you can get pictures showing the lot though I doubt you will be able to get pictures tomorrow. The utility company has probably already replaced the transformer and forced him to clean up the easement.

Longhorn Man · 12-02-2003, 01:19 AM

Don't take digital pics, they are inadmisable in court in many states...get a disposable 35mm if you don't own an old school camera.

I would at least speak with a lawyer now. Maybe not retain one yet, but speak to one, see what they say your options are. Plan ahead.
I would try to get an accident report done up, and if they will do it, get the officer to get pictures too. They will be 10 times more technical than any of us, and they know what pictures to take.
Osha, zoning, and any other agencey anyone can think of should all be contacted...maybe something for the lawyer to do while building up your case.

sniper2321 · 12-02-2003, 01:32 AM

Randy i do P.I. work with Ins. and private work. First take Pic's !!!!!!!!!. Leave the stuff right were it is at. So that if it gets harry they will not say that you set somthing up to save you a$$. If it comes to legal stuff just give me a ring you have my # or drop me an email. Just check the yard for any other hidden $hit before you move anything else.

beautimus · 12-02-2003, 02:50 AM

first off, glad to hear that no one was hurt.
i think that the folks saying you need pics are right, get them asap, before any one can move any thing. those folks are going to want to expedite repairs to get their power back on.
and stuff can change quickly when that stuff is going on.

can you clarify something? was it a power company transformer like for an under ground service? (it would seem kinda funny to have that in a junk yard.) or was it a transformer installed for the individual land owner?

Carl71 · 12-02-2003, 02:50 AM

I agree with take pictures. The electric company is going to go after land owner. Depends on how your contract read for the purchase of the items. Did you guys cover this in your purchase? Good luck (accidents, damages, etc.)

lost wages · 12-02-2003, 03:25 AM

i may be wrong but since you seem to alsways be getting trucks and parts from everywhere maybe you shouldnt burn any bridges, i would talk to a lawyer and if it comes down to where the lawyer thinks you might have to pay, maybe talk to the guy that owns the yard and slit it. If you were on his loader it would seem to me you know him enough that he trusts you to run his equipment. I think in the long run it might cost more if it gets around that you sued him or broke something and didnt pay, the other yards will find out and it might be hard to get in there to browse around. i would stay away from there until you talk to a lawyer and see what he or she says you have the right to do.

12-01-2003, 08:18 PM	#1
teeitup Just like to part out trucks!! Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Meriden, Ks-North of Topeka 10 miles Posts: 27,396	Need advice, accident today!! Well I had a accident today, I was in this guys junk yard where I'm buying all this stuff, moving stuff around on a skid loader and hit a transformer that was mounted in the ground, tore it up bad and BIG BANG!! This guy had stuff stacked on it and around it, NEVER told me anything about the transformer being there. The electric guy told me it was my responsibility and I would have to pay the $3000 to his company, they took my name, address and phone #. The owner told me on the phone it was my fault I should of seen it but as I said I was never told there was a live transformer in the middle of this junk, SURPRISED the HELL out of me, lucky my father in law wasn't standing right beside it or he would of been killed probably. I'm going to wait and see what happens with the bill, I may be in a lawsuit before I'm done. Anybody have any ideas??? Thanks, BAD DAY here!!! Randy __________________ 67 Chev swb stepside 4x4 283 4 speed SOLD 72 blazer 4x4 4 speed Cheyenne 72 GMC swb 4x4 fleet 4 speed, original paint 1958 Cameo (one of 1405 built, it was my dads) 2020 chevy Apex 4x4 crew cab 1969 Z28 with the 302 1980 chevy swb 4x4 1964 chevell Malibu SS 1976 K20, sold new originally out of my dads chevy dealership Members that I've met, over 200 probably closer to 300 in the 12 years I've been on this site, everyone I met "It was a pleasure"

12-01-2003, 08:25 PM	#2
Castiron9 72 LONGHORN OWNER Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Wash. Posts: 963	Excuse me but how the hell are you resposible for it if you were unaware that it was there.It seems to me that some of the blame lays on the owner of junk yard for not informing you that he had a bunch of stuff piled on top it.And would'nt the electricity Co. have some fault for not having the transformer clearly marked????.Seems to me that if you are partially responsible it should be a 3 way split on damages...What if someone had been seriously hurt..could'nt you hold them responsible..Sorry for the long post just my 5 Cents ... __________________ 72-SUPER CHEYENNE/20 LONGHORN 70-C/30 DUALLY

12-01-2003, 08:25 PM	#3
ChevLoRay Old Skool Club Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Benton, AR "The Heart of Arkansas" Posts: 10,880	If they had a live transformer in an area that is confining, I'd think seriously about contacting OSHA. They have some serious rules about fencing them off to limit the possibility of someone contacting it, as you did. For them to have stuff stacked around it, just adds to the seriousness. I think, that dropping the "I'm gonna call OSHA to see what they say about where the transformer was" will go a long way toward making them drop their claim for damages. If the transformer was put there by the utility company, shame on them. If it was up on a pole, it would have been different. But, for it to be "on the ground", just isn't right. No fencing. No barriers. Not right. I guarantee that OSHA has rules on it. Check www.osha.gov for the ruling that they should be following. __________________ Member Nr. 2770 '96 GMC Sportside; 4.3/SLT - Daily driven....constantly needs washed. '69 C-10 SWB; 350/TH400 - in limbo The older I get, the better I was. Last edited by ChevLoRay; 12-01-2003 at 08:28 PM.

12-01-2003, 08:28 PM	#4
griesel72 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Howard, Kansas USA Posts: 1,997	Randy, Sorry to hear about your bad luck. If worse comes to worse, i know that when my mom and dad built their new house last year, they were going to need something like 10 poles put in to get to the build site. The electric guys came out and said that at 1600/pole it would be 16000 dollars to get electricity. Well, my dad offered them 4000 to see what they would do, and they took it. Also, see if your liability insurance might cover it. And, you never know, they may never send a bill (they should have insurance for that sort of thing) Best of luck David __________________ 1969 K10 Custom 10 1997 Z71 2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 2006 King Ranch 1980 Wife

12-01-2003, 08:31 PM	#5
cableguy0 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Delta,Pa Posts: 14,950	if i were you i would take pictures of the junk around the transformer just so they cant say that your lying seocnd i would contact osha and whoever else might be able to help you. you might also want to call a lawyer and see what they say they will usually give free advice __________________ Owner of North Point Car Care in Dundalk Md. We specialize in custom exhaust on both modern and classic vehicles. We are a full service auto shop from classics to modern vehicles. Feel free to contact me with questions. I will give a 10% discount to any board member.

12-01-2003, 08:48 PM	#6
dtlilly Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Shadow of Lambeau Field Posts: 5,597	First off they would have gotten a fake name, addy, and phone # from me. Go back tomarrow and take some pics of the area around the transformer. If they ask what you are doing it for, tell them they are for your attorney and OSHA. Then start to ask for the land owners information and General Liability insurance info. I would consult your family attorney and also contact your personal liability insurance carrier, or your general liability carrier.

12-01-2003, 08:49 PM	#7
cheyenne10 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,512	OSHA I agree this could be large OSHA issue. They often investigate accidents like this often considered "near misses". It may not change charges but utility company should be careful on laying blame, if they own the facility (which I bet they do) The utility company also might have an easement for the transformer if it serves other that the owner of the property which it was located. Utility policy most likely states keeping transformer area "clear from debris". As for the comment about offering the utility less $$ than their estimate for power extension that wouldn't fly around here. Cost of services is born by the customer. Why should other rate payers subsidise those that can afford to live far off the road which is often a luxury. Those of us in town pay less for power extension because length of faclities used to serve us is shorter per customer hookup. Many more agencies are waking up to the common sense rules that we are charged for time required to process something or to serve and avoiding all of us subsidising the rare case. A little attorney advise can almost always help. __________________ Bob

12-01-2003, 08:50 PM	#8
70c10 67-72 Addict! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The TAX State! Posts: 7,857	Like cableguy0 said, Take the pictures now!. The guy might not even have his own insurance at the place. Maybe that's why he is blaming you. Ask him if he's insured. Good luck! __________________ Jim 1970 C/10 Fleetside w/Ghost Flames Lowered 4.5" front and 4" rear (Raked) 355/350 Turbo w/shift kit 10" Redneck Performance Verter w/2500 stall Hooker Super Comps part#2808-1 Performer RPM Air-Gap 12 Bolt w/3:73 gears- Eaton Posi Comp Cams XE262 with 1.6 Crane Energizers, Road Demon 625 and Brodix IK 180 heads

12-01-2003, 08:52 PM	#9
frogsmakr Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Sherwood AR Posts: 553	lawyer __________________ 67 C-10 shortwide '06 Triumph Thruxton '09 Harley 'Lectra Glide '95 Z-71 two door Tahoe

12-01-2003, 08:57 PM	#10
krue Designated A-hole! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 36,450	You definitely need to call a lawyer. Find the crookedest one around and get him on your side. __________________ "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!" Being stupid ain't illegal. We're Still Debt Free Except for the House!!! www.daveramsey.com 70 GMC SWB Stepside project "Green Booger" soon to be 6.0l/4l80e 93 S-10 "Poppaw's Truck"

12-01-2003, 09:03 PM	#11
Lobo'74 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 404	Just my 2 cents... A good lawyer might well hit them with a counter suit charging that BOTH the land owner AND the unility were neglegent by not having the transformer properly marked and/or fenced off. The good lawyer might then bring up the fact that you could have been killed and that the stress and trauma of you hitting an unmarked and unprotected transformer might have an adverse effect onyou. I think they are culpable and the unsafe situation was one of THEIR making that you stumbled upon. They should be concerned about what they almost did to you, not the other way around. Get pictures FAST, get a good lawyer, contact OSHA. Just my humble opinion. I hope it all comes out OK for you. __________________ "Truck" '67 small window '79 350 .030 over, LT1 "clone"

12-01-2003, 09:12 PM	#12
ozarkhippie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Eureka Springs AR Posts: 494	Randy with me being in the excavation business I've been in the same boat. The best thing I can tell you is to be calm don't contact the elect co. or mention it to anyone. Let it settle down. Usually the utilty employees talk alot (having fun seeing you worry). If they do talk lawsuit just wait awhile and see how far they intend to go with it, then maybe contact a lawyer. I've delt with alot of different utilty co. and most generaly they all are pretty easy going. I've been into a lot of stuff like you have just done and there have only been a few times they stuck us with a bill and it usually wan't for as much as they could have. __________________ Buy Sale or Trade 71 3/4 4x4 72 1/2 ton cheyenne 4x4

12-01-2003, 10:14 PM	#13
Zeke Active Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: L.A. Lower Alabama Posts: 453	OSHA. Don't know if this applies: 1910.269(k)(2)(i) In areas not restricted to qualified persons only, materials or equipment may not be stored closer to energized lines or exposed energized parts of equipment than the following distances plus an amount providing for the maximum sag and side swing of all conductors and providing for the height and movement of material handling equipment: 1910.269(k)(2)(i)(A) For lines and equipment energized at 50 kV or less, the distance is 10 feet (305 cm). __________________ 1969 C10 350 3spd 1995 GMC 3500 XC 350 dually When Thomas Edison worked late into the night on the electric light, he had to do it by gas lamp or candle. I'm sure it made the work seem that much more urgent. George Carlin

12-01-2003, 10:17 PM	#14
ozarkhippie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Eureka Springs AR Posts: 494	Thats for overhead lines Zeke __________________ Buy Sale or Trade 71 3/4 4x4 72 1/2 ton cheyenne 4x4

12-01-2003, 10:19 PM	#15
67Fleetsidedream Wiseass secured himself a BAN Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: MOON!!! Posts: 2,282	I would wait it out and see if they are bluffing. If they are not hit them with everything you can.... A transformer in a wrecking yard in a recipe for a accident....Glad your OK...



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12-01-2003, 10:38 PM	#17
8.1PWR Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Green Valley, AZ Posts: 28	If OSHA doesn't have anything to cover an item like that check zoning. All those big ground transformers I've seen have steel posts around them to keep things like this from happening. __________________ 1970 Chev C20, 2wd, LB, 350 4BBL, muncie 4spd, 4:10 limited slip. 2002 Chev 2500HD 8.1L Allison, 4X4. 1996 Chev S10 Blazer, 4X4. 2006 Jeep LJ Rubicon

12-01-2003, 11:54 PM	#18
too much stuff Roadtrip! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grand Rapids MN Posts: 13,712	Would his homeowners ins cover something like that? Heck, that is what you pay ins for.

12-02-2003, 12:04 AM	#19
teeitup Just like to part out trucks!! Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Meriden, Ks-North of Topeka 10 miles Posts: 27,396	Thanks guys for all the input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was marked on the side, but not the side I hit. I honestly thought it was a dish washer since there are so many of those around there. It really could of been a bad situation if my help was around right then, real scary!!!! I'm taking pics tomorrow. Thanks again Randy __________________ 67 Chev swb stepside 4x4 283 4 speed SOLD 72 blazer 4x4 4 speed Cheyenne 72 GMC swb 4x4 fleet 4 speed, original paint 1958 Cameo (one of 1405 built, it was my dads) 2020 chevy Apex 4x4 crew cab 1969 Z28 with the 302 1980 chevy swb 4x4 1964 chevell Malibu SS 1976 K20, sold new originally out of my dads chevy dealership Members that I've met, over 200 probably closer to 300 in the 12 years I've been on this site, everyone I met "It was a pleasure"

12-02-2003, 01:15 AM	#20
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Santa Fe, Texas Posts: 250	First off let me say you are very very lucky. You are not the one at fault. They landowner is. For one he did not keep the easement around the transformer clear. Second he allowed you to use the skid steer with out properly instructing you on the dangers in his lot. Utimately in a lawsuit the utility company can only name the landowner. The land owner would have to sue you and that would be a very shakey case indeed. Especially if you can get pictures showing the lot though I doubt you will be able to get pictures tomorrow. The utility company has probably already replaced the transformer and forced him to clean up the easement.

12-02-2003, 01:19 AM	#21
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Don't take digital pics, they are inadmisable in court in many states...get a disposable 35mm if you don't own an old school camera. I would at least speak with a lawyer now. Maybe not retain one yet, but speak to one, see what they say your options are. Plan ahead. I would try to get an accident report done up, and if they will do it, get the officer to get pictures too. They will be 10 times more technical than any of us, and they know what pictures to take. Osha, zoning, and any other agencey anyone can think of should all be contacted...maybe something for the lawyer to do while building up your case.

12-02-2003, 01:32 AM	#22
sniper2321 Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: S.E. Fla Posts: 185	Randy i do P.I. work with Ins. and private work. First take Pic's !!!!!!!!!. Leave the stuff right were it is at. So that if it gets harry they will not say that you set somthing up to save you a$$. If it comes to legal stuff just give me a ring you have my # or drop me an email. Just check the yard for any other hidden $hit before you move anything else.

12-02-2003, 02:50 AM	#23
beautimus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: woodstock, alabama, usa Posts: 938	Randy first off, glad to hear that no one was hurt. i think that the folks saying you need pics are right, get them asap, before any one can move any thing. those folks are going to want to expedite repairs to get their power back on. and stuff can change quickly when that stuff is going on. can you clarify something? was it a power company transformer like for an under ground service? (it would seem kinda funny to have that in a junk yard.) or was it a transformer installed for the individual land owner? __________________ i survived cancer and kidney stones, but my kids are killing me.

12-02-2003, 02:50 AM	#24
Carl71 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 242	I agree with take pictures. The electric company is going to go after land owner. Depends on how your contract read for the purchase of the items. Did you guys cover this in your purchase? Good luck (accidents, damages, etc.)

12-02-2003, 03:25 AM	#25
lost wages Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: jefferson city, mo Posts: 1,364	i may be wrong but since you seem to alsways be getting trucks and parts from everywhere maybe you shouldnt burn any bridges, i would talk to a lawyer and if it comes down to where the lawyer thinks you might have to pay, maybe talk to the guy that owns the yard and slit it. If you were on his loader it would seem to me you know him enough that he trusts you to run his equipment. I think in the long run it might cost more if it gets around that you sued him or broke something and didnt pay, the other yards will find out and it might be hard to get in there to browse around. i would stay away from there until you talk to a lawyer and see what he or she says you have the right to do.

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