Attempting a power brake upgrade

[ncpetersc]

Always intended to do this at some point. Had to replace a rubber line a few weeks ago (swelled and no longer allowed fluid flow). Since I had opened the system, figured I’d look for a kit since I would be bleeding anyway.

Waiting for penetrating fluid to hopefully allow the removal of the rearward line from the prop valve, trying to be patient. The front one cracked loose okay but back one not budging.

While waiting took a look at new valve from the kit. It has an extra port on upper front. Question is: just plug it?

All other ports look the same and look like the same size fittings.

72 disk/drum manual setup from the factory.

[RustyPile]

I recently purchased a power brake upgrade "kit" from Summit Racing.. It came with everything needed, including plugs for unused ports, special rod for mating the master cylinder to the booster. And most importantly, the detailed instructions for installing everything, including which ports to use and which ones to block..You didn't say which "kit" you have, but most of them come with an instruction sheet that explains which ports to use.. Read your instructions carefully and all your questions will probably get answered..

[Jason Banks]

Yes. Just plug it.

[ncpetersc]

Got mine from "PartsGeek" looked identical to the summit kit, but this one included a new prop valve for about the same price as the summit one without the valve.

No instructions though, but I have read the instructions. I got part #:13975-02338825 on this page https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19...e_booster.html

Looks like I may have gotten the last one it says out of stock now.

Anyway I think it is virtually the same as https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...del/c10-pickup

I received plugs for the unused master cylinder ports, and know which ones to use there.

[ncpetersc]

That rear fitting will not budge, and I've done some damage to it now. Nothing ever goes easy for me, always has tIo be one bolt or something that prevents me from progress!!

Been soaking it good, but it's horizontal so maybe not seeping as good as it could. Any other tips for freeing these stuck fittings? Would heat be a complete no no due to brake fluid being so flammable?

If I have to cut it and get a new fitting, is flaring these lines pretty simple?

Thanks!

[Jason Banks]

No it's not flamable...heat it up with a propane torch. That always works for me!

[phlegm]

subscribed, this is on the list!

Question for you guys, I couldnt get summit to answer. for some reason in the comments they said something about this being for automatics... Either of you guys done this with 3 on the tree?

[Jason Banks]

I used this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1972-C...m/330948170372

Looks just like the summit one.

I used it on my 3OTT.

[AussieinNC]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

That rear fitting will not budge, and I've done some damage to it now. Nothing ever goes easy for me, always has tIo be one bolt or something that prevents me from progress!!

Been soaking it good, but it's horizontal so maybe not seeping as good as it could. Any other tips for freeing these stuck fittings? Would heat be a complete no no due to brake fluid being so flammable?

If I have to cut it and get a new fitting, is flaring these lines pretty simple?

Thanks!

If the brake line is rusted in, it is also rusted to the metal brake line itself....

If you have a pair of vice grips, put them on the fitting and try to tighten the fitting a little, sometimes this will break it loose...then undo the fitting...watch the metal line for twisting, if it turns with fitting it will most likely break off...

If the line is rusted, it will be weaker than designed and almost impossible to flare again....

Much easier to either make a new line with new fittings or purchase a new one ready bent....

Dont scrimp on brake lines or hoses,,,your life and those of others could b e at risk.

[ncpetersc]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I finally got it to break free, basically letting it soak did the trick I guess. I keep learning that lesson. So many times I've returned to a stuck bolt a few hours later after spraying it, and popped it free. PB Blaster is magic.

Anyway, I did make some progress. Everything is mounted and connected in the truck (dry), and I think I have the pedal adjusted properly. I had to order some things though, needed the firewall boot, planned on reusing original, but it had other plans. Dried out, and in two pieces. Also went ahead and ordered that proportioning valve bleed tool. Read too much about people struggling to reset those.

Also, the bracket for the proportioning valve is the bottom mount style under the MC. Shouldn't be an issue I don't think. The picture of the kit on the website showed it vertical next to master. So don't know what happened there. But I got everything to fit. Front line was the furthest "stretch".

When I get the stuff and a nice day, I'll bench bleed the master, install, and commence the bleeding process. I'll report back on how that all goes.

Any advice welcome as usual.

[RustyPile]

Never, ever use vice grips on tubing fittings.. All sorts of bad things happen as a result.. The proper tool is a flare nut wrench, sometimes referred to as line wrench.


https://www.bing.com/search?q=flare+...lvar=0&PC=LCTS

I speak from experience as I have over 30 years experience as an automotive technician.. I can't recommend the use of heat, as I never had to use heat to break a fitting loose, just muscle and patience..

Now about the "kit" you purchased.. The one I got from Summit appears to be the as the one you referenced in the link. Mine came with a new proportioning valve...

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by RustyPile

Never, ever use vice grips on tubing fittings.. All sorts of bad things happen as a result.. The proper tool is a flare nut wrench, sometimes referred to as line wrench.


https://www.bing.com/search?q=flare+...lvar=0&PC=LCTS

I speak from experience as I have over 30 years experience as an automotive technician.. I can't recommend the use of heat, as I never had to use heat to break a fitting loose, just muscle and patience..

Now about the "kit" you purchased.. The one I got from Summit appears to be the as the one you referenced in the link. Mine came with a new proportioning valve...

I did start with a line wrench. But the fittings was such that it wasn't as tight a fight as it should be and slipped over the corners on the first attempt. The sloppiness of it wasn't going to work.

I hope the fitting is not damaged due to my using the vice grips. We shall see when we add fluid and check for leaks I guess. Maybe next weekend, though it looks like it's going to get cold. *brrrr*

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by phlegm

subscribed, this is on the list!

Question for you guys, I couldnt get summit to answer. for some reason in the comments they said something about this being for automatics... Either of you guys done this with 3 on the tree?

I saw this too, in the Q&A they discuss this, and it appears to be a mistake in the description. Check out the last question on page 2 of the "Q&A".

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...ilter=1&page=2

[phlegm]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

I saw this too, in the Q&A they discuss this, and it appears to be a mistake in the description. Check out the last question on page 2 of the "Q&A".

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...ilter=1&page=2

Awesome, thanks!

[ncpetersc]

An Update:
Spent a few hours this weekend *trying* to finish this up. Not as easy or smooth as I had hoped.

Bench bled and installed the master. Getting flare fitting started is a royal pain. Leave what ever you can as loose as far as mounting so that you can wiggle things around to get them square and started.

Started to try to bleed at a rear wheel. Nothing! Turned wheel, and made sure pressing the pedal stopped it, it did. So I know there is pressure/fluid at the cylinder. Kept at it over and over, with a lot of pumping up the pedal before opening the bleeder, and it finally started to flow.

I hear pumping a lot is bad as it just agitates any air making lots of little bubbles. But that's what got it flowing. Moved to the next wheel, some difficulty again but got the fluid flowing eventually. I did both rears until I started to see fluid color change (old to new). But the rears were a pain plain and simple, our legs were getting sore from all the pumping of the pedal.

Yes, I kept checking/filling the MC after each 5 or 6 successful pushes of fluid. Also found many little "weep" type leaks at most of my fitting connections. Each time all I did was crack it loose and tighten it again, maybe just slightly tighter than it was. But I think that Geezer99 suggested this as way to get flare fittings to seat properly. Made sense to me. I think I'm leak free for the moment. :fingers crossed:

Moved to the passenger front. This was completely painless compared to the rears. Fluid flowed freely.

Moved to the drivers front. And nothing! Again and again, but after a few tries noticed fluid was seeping out from the threads of the bleed screw. Things have to become this obvious before I catch on, of course. Pulled the bleed screw and it was completely clogged with some rust colored crud. I worked a paper clip into it and got it cleared. Then that wheel bled like a champ also.

I am wondering if the clogged bleed screws are what is going on in the rears as well. The plan is to go ahead and get some replacements for all four.

Anyone know if the bleed screw are different in the drums from what is in the front calipers?

Anyway, just wanted to share my experience in case anyone can learn from my mistakes in the future. I have certainly learned from other posts on the topic. Others point out that the kits don't come with the firewall boot, so just count on that. Also, a member here shared that they found some "extra" brake light warning switch wire folded back in the harness, so you don't have to splice/extend that wire. And I think mine has that as well, I just have to carefully dig it out of the harness.