55.2-59 Mustang ii help

[Missyblue]

Mustang ii help for a 1957 gmc truck. Those of you who have done it how did you adapt to the radiator support? Did you leave part of the original crossmember in and just trim it back on the backside for the rack and pinion?. Or remove it and alter radiator mount somehow? My kit came with a new stabilizer bar to put in the front and supposed to remove the original crossmember but I know the chevy radiator support is different so hoping for help and what works nice.
Also any other tips regarding this process.
Easiest way to remove rivets?
Centering the tire. Feel like I see many that are forward and back in the wheel opening want to keep centered....
Put frame on Jack stands or how do you prefer to set up and level it?

Etc..
Thanks! Excited and nervous for this big step forward

[dsraven]

before you start you need to know your rake angle desired, tire size diameter and ride height. these all make a difference for the new cross member install.
-rake angle will make a difference because the cross member will need to be level, front to rear, when the truck is at ride height sitting on a level floor.
-tire size diameter because the diameter of the tire will make a difference on how it looks in the wheel opening. a smaller tire diameter will have less of an impact on the look than a larger tire diameter that fills the opening more. a larger tire diameter,moved 1/2" fore or aft, will be easier to look out of place simply because it is closer to the fender opening edges.
-ride height because the lower the truck sits the more the tire looks like it is being stuffed into the rear of the wheel opening. the fender opening has a rounded curve on the front section but a tapered edge on the rear part. as the truck is lowered over the tire it automatically makes the axle center look too far back, thats why a lot of guys move the axle center line ahead some. bear in mind that if the truck is lowered too much you will possibly need a C notch over the rear axle.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

before you start you need to know your rake angle desired, tire size diameter and ride height. these all make a difference for the new cross member install.
-rake angle will make a difference because the cross member will need to be level, front to rear, when the truck is at ride height sitting on a level floor.
-tire size diameter because the diameter of the tire will make a difference on how it looks in the wheel opening. a smaller tire diameter will have less of an impact on the look than a larger tire diameter that fills the opening more. a larger tire diameter,moved 1/2" fore or aft, will be easier to look out of place simply because it is closer to the fender opening edges.
-ride height because the lower the truck sits the more the tire looks like it is being stuffed into the rear of the wheel opening. the fender opening has a rounded curve on the front section but a tapered edge on the rear part. as the truck is lowered over the tire it automatically makes the axle center look too far back, thats why a lot of guys move the axle center line ahead some. bear in mind that if the truck is lowered too much you will possibly need a C notch over the rear axle.

Thank you much appreciated! So I'll have to research the rake angle i dont know anything about figuring that yet. I keep having to learn one thing at a time Haha. I dont understand how you figure rake angle when you don't have everything final yet like tires and how the engine will affect things.
Tire size I keep searching the posts and my favorite is a larger tire so was thinking 215/70/15 but was recommended for my rims that 215/75 would be better. But not sure that tall of a tire will fit once lowered. So still processing. Keep searching forums for tire size and ideas. And yes I dont like the ones I see that are pushed to the back so.thanks for that comment about moving forward. And supposedly this kit drops it 4" but only time will tell I guess. I wanted to buy tires now but then was strongly recommended to wait till truck is lowered to see what fits but now seems I need to have my tires.to figure rake so confused. My original tires are the 235/75/15 I have on now.

I appreciate your help and time as always

[mr48chev]

A guy would have to have a pretty steep stink bug rake before you really affected the caster angle enough to need to alter from what the manufacture says to do.

Those rakes are pretty much 70's nonsense now anyhow. I was as guilty as anyone else back then. 2 inches higher in the back than in the front or a rubber rake isn't going to affect anything measurably.

Someone on here has to have build photos of MII installs in TF trucks Thing is I am am thinking that the way the mounts for the nose of a Chevy are done on the frame is different than the mounts for a GMC nose. Enough different that you have to do some changes if you swap noses and enough different that you have to sit back and ponder your moves when you are working on a GMC with instructions for a Chevy.

[dsraven]

I have a Canadian version of the 57 GMC and, previously to now, did an MII IFS from TCI. that frame is long gone now but when I did the frame and cross member install I started by:
-setting the whole truck frame up on jack stands, fore and aft, at the rake angle intended and levelled side to side. I used a digital torpedo level placed on top of the 4 ft bubble level. this way your frame will be as good as you can get it because the bubble levels, however good as they are, are still subject to how you look at them. if you look from a slight angle it changes how the bubble looks in the window of the level. a digital level can be read from any angle and the digital screen will say the same. they are also accurate to a decimal point, like a front end alignment machine will be. when I did mine I used some jack stands with the sliding parts removed. in their place I tack welded on some home made flat washers to fit well covering the hole from the sliding parts and also with a hole in them the size of some large threaded rod I used as new uprights that extend to the frame of the truck. on the ends of the threaded rod, at the frame end, I tacked on some 3/8" bolts that would fit into some already in place holes in the frame. the other end of the threaded rod had some jam nuts to tighten down once the levelling procedure was complete. the frame can be levelled nicely this way and once some jam nuts have been tightened down the frame should stay where you put it. ensure to place the stands far enough out of the work zone.
- after the frame is all levelled up, start by first doing a check to ensure the frame is square. the GM method back in the day has you doing diagonal dimension checks at locations and intervals down the frame. this way you are checking smaller sections along the length so you ensure the frame isn't tweaked at a certain spot down the length. what I did with mine was go from front left to rear right, mark the dimension I got, then go opposite and compare. they say 1/8" out of whack is ok.
-another method to do this is to mark the center of each cross member from side to side. place a piece of tape on the cross member then mark the center with pencil. do each one front to rear. then use a laser or string line, strung from front to rear down the middle, and see if all the pencil marks are dead on. this will show if the frame has a sideways tweak in it anywhere.
-after that was made all good I placed a short length of 2" square tube on the front and rear of the frame rail, one at a time, and strung the string line down each frame rail, fore to aft, to check for sag. the frame is pretty straight so it is easy to check except for the bump up over the rear axle. that was a the reason for the tubing "stand off", to space the string line above thee highest point on the frame and keep it parallel fore to aft. a third piece of tubing can be used to check the dimension below the string all along the straight sections of the frame rail to ensure the string is "stood off" the frame the same amount all along.
-once the frame is straight and good then ensure the area where you will be installing the boxing plates is good and clean with no grease etc that will affect welding.
-once the area is all clean do yourself a favor and do a small center punch mark above and below each front spring pin center location. this is because the MII cross member will usually reference that spot for the axle center line. if you remove the spring hangers to tidy things up then you lose the reference mark.
-before removing any of the old parts it is a good idea to remove the bumper and weld a couple of braces across the frame rails from side to side. this will keep the rails at the proper dimension when you remove the old cross member up front and also the one behind the engine for the trans. it also can be a good spot to place a floor jack. if you plan to use it for jacking then use something that will be strong enough without bending, which would affect the dimension you are trying to keep steady. another location I installed cross bracing at was behind the whole front suspension set up, under the cab, somewhere close to where the cab mounts are. when the trans cross member is removed the frame can flex in that location due to the span between cross members and can cause a few issues with cab mounting and floor cracking/door fitment/fender to door gaps.
-when you are setting angles for the cross member use the long bolts that go through for the lower control arms as a reference for the fore to aft angle. this will give a more true reading than simply placing the level or angle finder on top of the cross member. if those holes were not placed true to the top of the cross member steel then your angles will be out. what I did was place the bolt in the hole, mine fit tightly, then leave some of the bolt sticking out the front side so your level or angle finder can be placed on the stub of that bolt (or some shafting of the correct diameter instead of the bolt). when done the lower control arm should be level with the ground side to side and fore to aft, at ride height. it is some playing around but you can partially assemble the parts and mock up your tire in the fender opening and also the ride height, with the cross member only tacked in place.
-do some research on MII IFS geometry before you start so you know what you should end up with when done. heidts has a write up on their site and I have that document but it is too large to post here. it is called "understanding independent front suspension" and can be found here on page 94. good to know stuff before you begin. also, there are a few good youtubes to watch as well. the cross member I installed was a little lower than I thought it would be. something to watch for when doing mock up. know you stock dimensions, from rocker panel or frame to ground, before you start. possibly remove the wheels and set the truck down on blocks until you get a ride height you like and then keep that" frame to ground" dimension in your mind when installing the new cross member. you are gonna want to end up with at least 3" above the rear axle or a C notch above it. otherwise your dental bills will increase as you drive over bumps etc.
on the question of the original cross member in front of the engine, I cut mine out but reinforced the area behind the bumper to compensate for the lost structural integrity. same for the original trans cross member.
for cutting rivets an air chisel worked pretty good if you don't have a torch. if a torch is available heat the rivet head, then cut the top of the rivet head off close to the frame as possible without gouging the frame, then hammer the rivet out with a drift punch while the rivet is still red hot. this is a 2 person job. (there are rivet cutting torch tips available that cut close to the surface instead of gouging the frame). another method is to grind the head off the rivet and then drift punch the rest out or grind an X into the head and chisel off each 1/4 of the head then drift the rest of the rivet out. they are pretty tight so a large hammer and a stout punch are required. I also cut my cross member in 1/2 to get it out of the frame.
in the [pics you can see my jack stands, sort of, but you can also see some stuff I built to help keep the suspension set at ride height. they are sort of adjustable. some would simply use more threaded rod in place of the pipes but thats what I had kicking around at the time. also note that the upper control arms are angled downward. I fixed that later. the upper control arms should have a slight downward angle towards the frame with the lowers being level (at ride height) because otherwise when the suspension travels upward over a bump the tire actually leans outward at the top. this is due to the arc the ball joint travels through as the suspension moves. it would need to travel up and outward until the control arm is level, then the ball joint would continue to travel up but would also travel closer to the frame as the arc of the control arm allows. hope that doesn't confuse you.when the control arm is level the ball joint is as far away from the frame as it can get. as it travels through the arc the ball joint gets closer to the frame. with the lower control arm level to start with it's ball joint can only get closer to the frame as it moves upward over a bump. with the upper control arm angled upward to the ball joint it will get further away from the frame until the arm is level, then it will get closer to the frame as it continues in it's arc. combine the 2 moving in unison to see how it affects geometry of the tire angle. some cardboard mock ups will demonstrate better.
I also was not happy with the ball joint sealing boots. nothing I did made that better. one of the reasons that frame is not with me anymore. mock up prior to weld-in is a good thing.

hope that helps.

http://www.heidts.com/wp-content/upl...on-reduced.pdf

[dsraven]

2 degree rake angle is common these days. depends on the final use for the truck. work or show. work would need some built in load capacity possibly.

[dsraven]

here's a few more pics for you of when I did mine. a support at the rear of the lower control arm bolt is easy to do as well. 4deg down at the rear for the upper control arm mounting boxes I believe-antidive angle.

[dsraven]

this one shows the jack stands better, also the rear brace for the lower control arm.
you may notice the upper control arm boxes seem shorter than most. it's because I got the wrong cross member for my truck. not really much help from supplier so I did some research and found the correct dimension from the upper to the lower control arm pivot bolts and adjusted my parts to match. then my upper control arm angle to the ball joint was better. you need to have that dimension correct otherwise there could be bump steer caused from the tie rod pivot points being out of line from a line drawn between the upper and lower control arms. when this happens the tie rods don't move in the same manner as the control arms do so they get effectively shorter or longer and make the wheels turn without moving the steering wheel. explained in the heidts blurb I believe.
anyway, hope it helps.
TCI has a video showing their crew installing a MII in a 55-59. I am sure there are others as well.