Outer tie rod/spindle help

[Casey03]

I'm looking for some advice on how to fix a tie rod issue. The truck is a 1969 and the outer tie rods have a smaller taper than the spindles do. The spindles swallow them and they do not seat properly although the bottom hole looks correct. The spindles have a more extreme taper (they start larger). I'm guessing the previous owner has mixed some parts from different years. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Can I get different outer tie rods that will fit? Is there a shim/adapter? The inners fit fine but the outers were rocking back and forth in the spindle. Thanks in advance.

[HO455]

Welcome Aboard! To start how many lug nuts does your truck have on the front wheels? That will help us point you in the right direction. 69's came with 6 lugs on C-10's and 8 lugs on C-20's.

[rpmerf]

Do you have disc brakes or drum brakes? If you have disc brakes, you likely need 70-87 tie rod ends.

Also, if you have discs and your inner tie rods are for a 69, then you likely have conversion sleeves. They have one thread for the inners and a different larger thread for the outters.

[Casey03]

It is a 6 lug with disc brakes. I had ordered new tie rods (inners, outers, and sleeves) for a 69' thinking that might solve the issue. Like I said the inners fit but I'm thinking the spindles are for a different year. It was dangerous for them to have the truck set up this way. The pins weren't even in the castle nuts and they were about to fall off.

Thanks for the help!

[rpmerf]

You can look into the FAQs about disc brake conversions. I'll give a quick overview. The 1969 trucks came with drum brakes. Disc brakes started in 1971. There are a couple ways to convert.

Suspension parts that are different between 60-70 and 71-87
ball joints 71-87 are larger
tie rod ends (and adjuster) 71-87 are larger
center link 71-87 have larger tie rod holes. Be aware the idler arm size changed around 83.
spindle, hub, bearings, etc.

You can swap all of this from a 71-87 into your 60-70.

If you don't want to swap ball joints and tie rod ends, you can get conversion knuckles.

If you don't want to change your center link, you can get conversion adjusters that connect a 60-70 inner to a 71-87 outter.

So, where do you go from here. Since this was not done right, I would wonder about the ball joints. Check to make sure they fit in tight and are not falling out.

It sounds like you have your original center link (given that the 69 tie rod ends fit). You have 2 options -
Replace the center link, inners, and outers with 71-87 parts.
Get conversion sleeves and 71-87 outters.

Edit:
Now there is something with 6 lug vs 5 lug that I can't remember exactly. I have a C20, so it's all 8 lug. Hopefully someone can fill in what is going on there.

[Casey03]

Great info. I appreciate it!

[67C10Step]

If all the disc brake stuff is already on your truck perhaps you just have an outer tie rod issue where the PO did not realize they needed later model tie rods to attach to the disc brake spindles.

Now, if it were my truck I'd go over everything, inner/outer tie rods, ball joints, etc. If the PO didn't get the outer tie rods right I'd want to make certain they got everything else right before trusting fully.

From your description and not knowing where the spindles came from it would be hard to say if you need '69 hardware or later when it comes to ball joints. Sounds like you need later model outer tie rod ends which may mean you need new adjusting sleeves to accommodate your inner tie rods and center link since they would be different from the larger outer units.

[Bahamabob1]

in my research the DB spindle conversion and 6 lugs are

71-87? lowering spindle
71-87 upper and lower ball joints
71-87 outer tie rod ends
88-94 2wd c2500 rotors get you the 6 lugs
71-87 calipers
71/72 DB rubber lines

this said i'd check to make sure you have the correct outer tie rod ends and double check the ball joints also

[Casey03]

I bought the adapter sleeves and newer outer tie rod ends. They still don't fit right in the spindles. Any ideas?

[Casey03]

Does anyone recognize the spindles?

[tj1970cst]

Originally Posted by Bahamabob1

in my research the DB spindle conversion and 6 lugs are

71-87? lowering spindle
71-87 upper and lower ball joints
71-87 outer tie rod ends
88-94 2wd c2500 rotors get you the 6 lugs
71-87 calipers
71/72 DB rubber lines

this said i'd check to make sure you have the correct outer tie rod ends and double check the ball joints also

When using 1988 c2500 rotors, is there a way to use 7/16-20 studs to match the original 1970 ones? I noticed that the threads on an 88 are 9/16-18 with a .623 knurl diameter. The 7/16-20 have a .473 knurl diameter.



OP, have you checked a 1987 outer tie rod?

[Casey03]

I have not tried the 1987 outer. I plan to make a trip to a part store today and see if that's the issue. I'll post my findings if any.

[rpmerf]

You said you got newer outers, what ones did you get? Should be the same 71-87. Do you have a part number?

[Casey03]

I did get the newer outer tie rods. The taper is still too small

[67C10Step]

Got a micrometer or access to one? I'd mic the taper on the tie rod and to the best of my ability the top and bottom holes in the spindle. Something isn't adding up right here.

[weq92f]

.
ES415RL is correct for 71 - 87 outer according to RockAuto, so unless you got something boxed wrong, you've got what you should have gotten.

The 69 part number would be: ES350L

-klb

[rpmerf]

Looking around. Hope I didn't give you bad info.

I found your part number here, listed for a 71-72.
http://media.lmctruck.com/pdf/CB/0130.pdf

That lead me to Rock Auto. Looking at the tie rod end for a 69, 71, and 73 C10 Pickup. Using Moog Problem Solver part numbers.
1965-1970: ES350L
1971-1972: ES415RL
1973-1986: ES409RT

I am trying to find the stud diameter on these 3 tie rod ends. After some digging around, I stumbled upon: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=415653

65-70 outer is 7/16" with a .856 taper length going between .593 and .623
71-72 outer is 1/2" with a .612 taper length going between .521 and .623
73-86 outer is 9/16" with a .924 taper length going between .593 and .747

Looks like I did give you bad info, and you need a 73-86. Sorry! Hopefully you can return the parts you purchased. I got mixed up because I have a C20, and they use the same tie rod end from 71-87.

[Casey03]

This image is the measurement at the top of the spindle vs. the 71 outer tie rod I just got. If those measurements are correct, then the 73-86 ones should be it right? Or am I looking at something wrong?

Will those still work with the adapter sleeve I got?

[Jason Banks]

So, in your last picture you are showing where you measured the ID of the spindle and are showing the gap to the tie rod shaft?

It certainly looks like having a tie rod shaft that is .124 larger, like the 73-86, will fix your problem.

[Jason Banks]

Good question on the thread. On the moog website it shows:

ES409RT - Rod Thread 11/16-182A

ES415RL - Rod Thread: 11/16 - 18RH

[Casey03]

Jason that is correct. The measurement is the ID of the spindle shown against the 71 outer I got. I ordered the 73-86 outers earlier. I’ll post the outcome. Thanks for the replies!

[Casey03]

I got the 73-86 outer tie rods in. They fit my spindles and the Hotchkis adapters I bought. Thanks for the help with this. Time to go drive this thing finally!