Help Needed on Door Alignment Issue

[dz1087]

Okay fellers, need a little help with how to proceed on this. I had to remove and replace the entire floor, rockers, cab corners and the front and rear pillar bottoms on my 71. Today I hung the passenger door to get the rocker in the correct place. After I got the rocker tack welded in place for the test fit, I noticed something was wrong with the front to rear alignment of the rocker vs. the new floor.



A little hard to tell, but the back edge of the rocker to inner rocker alignment is off. The front (right of pic) is 3/16 of an inch closer to the inner rocker than the rear. The result is this:



No, the door is not completely level with the body line, but it would definitely not fix how far out the cab corner is from the door in the closed position. Of note in that photo, the upper part of the door around the handle is flush with the body as it should be, so this is the ‘closed’ position.



So, I think what happened here is that when I welded the lower B pillar back on, I either welded it too far in, or got the angle slightly off so it has pushed this part of the cab corner out too far.

What are my options here to get that alignment a little closer? I’m thinking I might have to cut the B pillar and take some of the material out. I’ve outlined where I would cut in this pic:



Is that correct, or is there something I’m not seeing here? Any way to do this without cutting in to the B pillar again? Bend the corner of the door out a bit?

[71 super]

You are going to gain a little territory with cab corner. What does top of door in the hole look like. Assuming original doors? May have to use wood block and a 3 lb persuader to help the door corner fit a little better. Did you cut everything loose at same time? Did you add braces to keep original openings as they were? If not, it is very possible that the cab flexed especially if you only had it on saw horses.

[LockDoc]

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It depends on how the bottom of the door fits the rocker all the way across. Do you have the weather stripping around the door opening installed? That will make a difference also.

LockDoc

[dz1087]

Originally Posted by 71 super

You are going to gain a little territory with cab corner. What does top of door in the hole look like. Assuming original doors? May have to use wood block and a 3 lb persuader to help the door corner fit a little better. Did you cut everything loose at same time? Did you add braces to keep original openings as they were? If not, it is very possible that the cab flexed especially if you only had it on saw horses.

I took all that off with the cab on a rotisserie with braces.



Still possible it flexed though. Top of the door looks pretty good. I can get a pic tomorrow. Everything looks square except that corner. Looking at the inside of the door, I don’t think weather stripping would even fit in that corner. Less than a eighth inch between the bottom of the door and the rocker in this corner with the door handle area flush with the body.

[dz1087]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

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It depends on how the bottom of the door fits the rocker all the way across. Do you have the weather stripping around the door opening installed? That will make a difference also.

LockDoc

The door and rocker are flush all the way across. I also do not have weather stripping on yet. As it stands now, I think if the weather stripping pushed the door out any in that corner, the door corner would be pushed out a bit from the rocker. It would get it closer to the cab corner though.

Would the door twist a bit like that with the weather stripping? If so, should the rocker be pulled out a little further there?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by dz1087

The door and rocker are flush all the way across. I also do not have weather stripping on yet. As it stands now, I think if the weather stripping pushed the door out any in that corner, the door corner would be pushed out a bit from the rocker. It would get it closer to the cab corner though.

Would the door twist a bit like that with the weather stripping? If so, should the rocker be pulled out a little further there?

The door probably will not twist. If you can't adjust the bottom of the door out then you will probably have to see if you can get the cab corner to move in some.

LockDoc

[Trash]

From what I can see in the door picture, it looks like the large gap continues up the door above the lower body line. First, re-check your door adjustment.

If the door is as far back as it can go and the gap hasn’t changed then I’d check the door fit on the other side to ensure the cab hasn’t got out of square. If it’s the same problem then obviously the rear somehow got shifted and you’ll have snug back up. If the other side fit is fine, then I would think the problem is in the b pillar and cab corner area.

[Jason Banks]

The cab I fixed that had so much stuff rusted out already, I don't think there was anything else left to brace. But, I still wish I had triangular braced(what was left of) the b pillers to at least keep them where they were before I started.

I felt like that outer part of my B-Pillar rolled away from the door kind of like you pictured also on the passenger side. It lead me to re-cut and weld where I patched the lower part of the pillar to bring it away from the inner rocker and the clamp it to the inner rocker to try to pull the whole thing back in. I cut a pie shaped piece from the lower b-pillar and rewelded it. It looks from the picture of yours it could be moved back about a 16th also.

As I was doing all this patching. I was amazed how much stuff seemed to end up in tension from clamping a persuading to get things lined up. ESPECIALLY the cab corners. I thought when I did the 2nd one I had learned so much but still ended up having to cut and refit and push/pull/tack and clamp to make it look right. TA_C10 had some good pictures in his build thread of the things he had to do to his cab corners to make them work. I would direct you over there but most of his images are no longer working.

[Jason Banks]

I didn't really talk about your rocker, but I came to the realization that the rockers I had were so piss poor that I'm just going to have to fix what misalignment is left with mud.

I had a pair or rockers form GM Pauls, another pair from Rock Auto(goodmark) and they were very similar in quality even though I hadn't heard good things about good mark. I also had the rockers that I cut off the truck. At some point the rockers had been replaced because I assume the originals were just completely gone. I'm pretty sure the replacements were GM parts but they had a few holes now years later, so i couldn't reuse them and they were only tacked to what remained along the bottom edge of the inner rocker and fully welded to the pillars which sucked, but I cut all that out anyway. Oh yah, and I have another truck with original rockers I can compare to.

In your first picture where you are looking down at the floor and the top edge of the rocker. That very top lip on the rocker panel that is bent back toward the floor. The replacements were not a consistant width and were overall too wide compared to original. I cut a sliver off the full length of the rocker to even it up.

[Jason Banks]

[dz1087]

Originally Posted by Trash

From what I can see in the door picture, it looks like the large gap continues up the door above the lower body line. First, re-check your door adjustment.

If the door is as far back as it can go and the gap hasn’t changed then I’d check the door fit on the other side to ensure the cab hasn’t got out of square. If it’s the same problem then obviously the rear somehow got shifted and you’ll have snug back up. If the other side fit is fine, then I would think the problem is in the b pillar and cab corner area.

I’ll hang the driver door today and give it a check. Overall, the door hole appears to be squared up to the door. It’s really just that corner that is pushed out a bit from what I can tell so far.

[dz1087]

Well, dang. Did a quick hang on the driver’s door just to see how it fit and this is what I found....



Looks like I’ve got the opposite problem over here, which would tell me the back of my cab is shifted about an eighth of an inch to the passenger side.

Here’s how it looked when I pulled out the pillar to simulate shimming it.



A few questions with how to proceed:

Should I get the cab on the frame to ensure there isn’t a twist in the floor causing this?

Could I get away with shimming the driver side B pillar and cutting out a little of the passenger side B pillar to get the door holes correct without cutting the rear of the cab loose from the floor?

I think I will have to get a new driver door due to rot in and around the lower hinge area and in the skin around the front and rear window posts. Should I wait on getting one or both doors before proceeding?

Were these door ever shimmed between the A pillar and the hinge? Did Chevy ever do that to adjust how the door fit top to bottom?

[Trash]

I’m by no means an expert on this, Do you have the height of the floor pan correct?

I noticed on my 67 the a and b pillar bolt holes didn’t line up with the new pan. I’m sure about this because I had everything braced to the original. You might want to check this.

Keep in mind that everything connects together. Trial fit everything before welding anything tight. I wouldn’t buy another door right now, just use what you have to get things lined up.

[randy500]

Moving The upper hinge in will move the back corner of the door out.
Moving the upper hinge out will move the back corner of the door in.

Here is how to fit the door.

1. Ignore the door window frame entirely until the very end.
2. Using the hinge adjustment fit the door contour to the back of the cab with an even gap and the best overall fit while being mindful of the door to rocker panel fit.
3. You may have to twist the door for a perfect fit, for example if just the back corner sits outward a bit....place a block of wood in the door jamb rear near the latch and push the lower door inward twisting the outer door skin attachment to the inner structure....it will move. You may have to push with your feet or even kick it.
4. Finally whip the door frame into shape with a 4x4, 4’ long piece or so, beat it around to fit the upper cab.

You may also adjust the rear cab skin where it it attached to the B pillar for a perfect fit, cut the spot welds and re attach.


Its called panel fitting, the factory guys did a great job of it on most trucks and its why when you change a door it doesn't always fit, they need to be fitted to each cab.

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by randy500

3. You may have to twist the door for a perfect fit, for example if just the back corner sits outward a bit....place a block of wood in the door jamb rear near the latch and push the lower door inward twisting the outer door skin attachment to the inner structure....it will move. You may have to push with your feet or even kick it.
4. Finally whip the door frame into shape with a 4x4, 4’ long piece or so, beat it around to fit the upper cab.

You may also adjust the rear cab skin where it it attached to the B pillar for a perfect fit, cut the spot welds and re attach.


Its called panel fitting, the factory guys did a great job of it on most trucks and its why when you change a door it doesn't always fit, they need to be fitted to each cab.

I love your posts on panel fitment Randy. I love hearing how the factory did it with huge blocks of wood and big hammers.

Gary

[dz1087]

Originally Posted by Trash

I’m by no means an expert on this, Do you have the height of the floor pan correct?

I noticed on my 67 the a and b pillar bolt holes didn’t line up with the new pan. I’m sure about this because I had everything braced to the original. You might want to check this.

Keep in mind that everything connects together. Trial fit everything before welding anything tight. I wouldn’t buy another door right now, just use what you have to get things lined up.

As far as floor pan height - I have no clue. It 'looks' proper. I put the top of the floor in to the original line that was left on the inside of the back of the cab from removing the old one and leveled it out on that line, so at the very least, the top of the floor is at the same point and as level as the original floor.

My B pillar holes wouldn't line up anyhow as I had to cut the old ones off and the replacements did not have any holes!

[dz1087]

Originally Posted by randy500

Moving The upper hinge in will move the back corner of the door out.
Moving the upper hinge out will move the back corner of the door in.

Here is how to fit the door.

1. Ignore the door window frame entirely until the very end.
2. Using the hinge adjustment fit the door contour to the back of the cab with an even gap and the best overall fit while being mindful of the door to rocker panel fit.
3. You may have to twist the door for a perfect fit, for example if just the back corner sits outward a bit....place a block of wood in the door jamb rear near the latch and push the lower door inward twisting the outer door skin attachment to the inner structure....it will move. You may have to push with your feet or even kick it.
4. Finally whip the door frame into shape with a 4x4, 4’ long piece or so, beat it around to fit the upper cab.

You may also adjust the rear cab skin where it it attached to the B pillar for a perfect fit, cut the spot welds and re attach.


Its called panel fitting, the factory guys did a great job of it on most trucks and its why when you change a door it doesn't always fit, they need to be fitted to each cab.

It sounds like you don't believe I need to be moving my B pillars around any, but I need to move the door to fit the pillars. However, these are the doors I pulled off the cab in the first place, so shouldn't they fit better than what I'm seeing or does it matter?

Anyway, how should I go about getting these rockers and corners on then? My thought process is that I need the rockers on in order to get the corners on correctly. I need to get the doors spaced within the frame in order to get the rockers set. So - do I need to get my new door/doors in and then get them bent in to shape and spaced within the frame prior to attaching the rockers?