Some previous owner welded the end caps on my upper control arms...

[HeavyHauler]

I took the suspension apart on my 1968 Chevy C10 396 shortbed fleetside truck and was in the process of trying to remove the upper control arm shafts when I noticed somebody had placed a 1/2 inch bead of weld on each of the control arm shaft end caps. They did it to both the passenger and driver side! LOL!

Was there ever a common issue with the upper control arm shaft end caps coming loose on these trucks?

Anyways I guess that I will need to hit the classified here to see if anybody has a set of upper control arms for sale.

Ya never know what you will find working on old cars and trucks that is for sure!

[firedemon]

someone probably changed them out and stripped the threads but could be someone just didn't trust they would stay put. is it welded all the way around or just tack welded ? if just tack welded they might be able to be saved

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by firedemon

someone probably changed them out and stripped the threads but could be someone just didn't trust they would stay put. is it welded all the way around or just tack welded ? if just tack welded they might be able to be saved

Yep thats what I was thinking also. They just tack welded a small 1/2 part. I cut the tack and I going to go buy a 1 3/8 socket tomorrow to try and break it loose.

If I nicked the lip of the control arm while trying to cut the tack weld do you think it would harm the fit or installment of the new one?

[Steeveedee]

OK, the weld is on the a-arm and the outer shell of the bushing? If, when you take it apart, and the outer bushing spins in the a-arm, if it were me, I'd buy new a-arms. If not, the nicking on the edge shouldn't change anything. Just look around at what people do with frames and steering components to modify their rides.

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

OK, the weld is on the a-arm and the outer shell of the bushing? If, when you take it apart, and the outer bushing spins in the a-arm, if it were me, I'd buy new a-arms. If not, the nicking on the edge shouldn't change anything. Just look around at what people do with frames and steering components to modify their rides.

Yes a small 1/2 inch long weld bead was applied to where the lip of the A-arm and the end cap or outer bushing meet together.

[toolboxchev]

Cut the weld, take them off. Replacements are cheap. Moog stuff is about 30 bucks right now, USA made even, from Jegs.

[Grumpy old man]

The torque #s are high for new bearing caps , The previous owner just wanted to make sure they didn't back off . I just did mine a while ago and after torquing them down I used Dykem marker on all the caps to be able to check them visually fast . after drying if you see the Dykem misaligned you know you need to address the problem . Or tack weld them . I replaced all the wear item parts with Moog from Rock auto

https://www.zoro.com/dykem-tamperpro...SABEgJrdvD_BwE

[Grumpy old man]

While you have the lower control arms off replace the stock 1/2" U bolts with the Dorman 9/16 .

[Grumpy old man]

it's a no brainer upgrade .

[scottofksu]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

it's a no brainer upgrade .

X2 on everything Grumpy said!

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

While you have the lower control arms off replace the stock 1/2" U bolts with the Dorman 9/16 .

Sounds good and will get them ordered or try to get them at Autozone.

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

it's a no brainer upgrade .

Will those fit through the frame where they mount up?

[Grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHauler

Will those fit through the frame where they mount up?

Just run a 9/16th drill bit up from the bottom to ream out the holes . easy peasy !

[Getter-Done]

Great contribution Grumpy.
I will (hope I) remember this
when I set-up my Front-end.









.

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

The torque #s are high for new bearing caps , The previous owner just wanted to make sure they didn't back off . I just did mine a while ago and after torquing them down I used Dykem marker on all the caps to be able to check them visually fast . after drying if you see the Dykem misaligned you know you need to address the problem . Or tack weld them . I replaced all the wear item parts with Moog from Rock auto

https://www.zoro.com/dykem-tamperpro...SABEgJrdvD_BwE

Did you use any thread locker on the upper and lower control arm shafts?

Also I am not sure I understand those torque instructions? It lists the lower control arm bushings twice with different torque specs AND what exactly are they talking about New & Replace?

[HO455]

I believe the New refers to when torquing new components and replacement refers to torquing used components. Like when a lower control arm would have been replaced with good used parts.
I have heard of this welding of the nuts before and it may have been a common practice back in the day at some shops. There is a lot of torque and not a lot threads in the arm. I would bet that failure of the threads was not that uncommon.

[cebra]

I did my control arms at a friends hot rod shop and he insisted I tack weld them to keep them from backing off. After seeing how thin the threads are I understand, lot of torque and not a lot of meat to bite into.

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by HO455

I believe the New refers to when torquing new components and replacement refers to torquing used components. Like when a lower control arm would have been replaced with good used parts.
I have heard of this welding of the nuts before and it may have been a common practice back in the day at some shops. There is a lot of torque and not a lot threads in the arm. I would bet that failure of the threads was not that uncommon.

But why does it show 2 different torque specs for lower control arm bushing? One for 160 and another for 280?

[Steeveedee]

Probably because of an expected difference in the amount of torque required between new and used. I'd personally expect it to be easier to thread the nuts in after they've been done once before. Might ask someone like Keith Seymour, who worked at a truck factory.

And I'd never weld them or allow someone to do so on my vehicles. The specified torque should be sufficient to hold the parts together, it's the whole point of a spec. Parts get thread locker on race cars, but that's a considerably different regime from what our trucks experience.

[Barnfind46]

Grumpy is dead on about the U-bolts. I had one snap pulling a travel trailer and almost lost the whole rig.

[rgunlock]

I think he's talking about both row 3 and 4 in the table being lower control arm bushing, but the torque specs are different in the 2 rows.

[cebra]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Probably because of an expected difference in the amount of torque required between new and used. I'd personally expect it to be easier to thread the nuts in after they've been done once before. Might ask someone like Keith Seymour, who worked at a truck factory.

And I'd never weld them or allow someone to do so on my vehicles. The specified torque should be sufficient to hold the parts together, it's the whole point of a spec. Parts get thread locker on race cars, but that's a considerably different regime from what our trucks experience.

This is right, lets say you can go 5 threads hand tight on new but can go 8 on used...same concept when torque'ing you don't want to go 20 threads in, when factory at the higher spec you were only 15 threads in, so to go 15 on used it takes less force (just random thread counts for explanation).

Regarding the 2nd comment, the condition of my threads wasn't great and we didn't trust them holding only under torque hence the tacks. Next time I replace control arm bushings I will have to do the whole thing (arms + bushings) though, it was just a way to get 1 more use out of the arms rather than replace them.

[Grumpy old man]

No thread lock , When I did mine I had just cleaned primed and painted them and the last thing I wanted to do was throw them in a vise to mate the shafts and caps , So I installed the lower shafts onto the cross member using the new 9/16 U bolts making sure to locate the pin in the front saddle with the lower shaft and torqued them in place , Then I installed the lower control arm on to the shaft using the weight of the frame /cross member to hold it while I installed the caps alternating one turn on the front then one turn on the back until the caps bottom out on the control arm and then torque them down , Same process for the top by sliding the upper shaft onto the studs and install the shaft nuts just enough to keep the shaft from falling off the cross member , Again alternating one turn front to back until the caps are seated to the upper control arm and then torque . For me working alone this was the easiest way to get the job done and not screw up my painted control arm in a vise . Read this other thread from a few months ago . Remember to USE JACK STANDS don't ever work under any car or truck without them .

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795425

[Grumpy old man]

pics

[Grumpy old man]

" Regarding the 2nd comment, the condition of my threads wasn't great and we didn't trust them holding only under torque hence the tacks. Next time I replace control arm bushings I will have to do the whole thing (arms + bushings) though, it was just a way to get 1 more use out of the arms rather than replace them."


This is why I used the Dykem marker to mark the caps/ control arms . It's easy to check if they need to be re torqued or tack welded after about 50 miles I go over all the suspension and check / re torque everything .