70 Door Hinges - Spacers

[TA_C10]

This doesn't seem right. Or is it normal? I know the gaps and doors on our trucks weren't great from factory but dang.

I ended up adjusting/sliding the door hinges so the door is "OUT" away from cab as much as the adjustments allow. I have the new rubber installed. And it was still so bad the door wouldn't shut. And you could tell the rubber was hitting in the wrong place.

I then ended up using washers to try and figure out some extra spacing behind the hinge-to-cab and I got all the way out to 3/16 spacers before the door was absolutely perfect.... At first, I thought the top window frame of the door was bent, but after doing this adjustment, the door fits absolutely perfect up against the rubber all the way around, and on the outside it is almost flush with outside of cab frame around door. There is a very small lip. Looks awesome.

But then I looked down at the rockers..... WAY OFF. I fit my rockers with the doors where they looked good before I put rubber on them.

Is this right? Are they that far off?

3/16 spacing, looking down on the door hinge:




Gap is perfect:

[1971Stepside]

I also did all my welding and grinding with no rubbers in the doors. I put the Civic rubber on and the drivers work great. When I close my passenger door it kicks the back/bottom of the door out. I know it is in the adjustment of the hinges and latch plate. Just haven't messed with it yet. I have seen people use spacers on the hinges. With those washers are your rockers still out?

[TA_C10]

Oh yeah, the doors are kicked out at the bottom an inch or more.... It's crazy how perfectly the 3/16" spacers behind hinges make the doors fit against the rubber. But the downside is how much the doors are pushed out over the rockers... When I shut the door, looking from the inside of cab, ALL the way around the door the rubber is absolutely perfect. The door comes into the rubber and just ever so slightly is pushing the rubber evenly all the way around.

So I may slide the hinge adjustments so the door slides back into the door jam a little so they hit the rubber a little more, but the bottom outside will still be way out from the rockers... I feel like I am doing something wrong, but maybe not. Maybe they are just this far off.

I will take more pictures of the door from the inside so you can see how it is perfectly touching the rubber. I got my rubber OEM from NPD.

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[MDPotter]

I've replaced rockers on two trucks now and still don't have it mastered. What does the gap look like at the bottom where the lip of the rocker and the inner floor almost meet? If your inner floor has been replaced, this may not be a good baseline but if your door is out an inch on the bottom then the gap at the bottom as I described should be pretty big.

I question how consistent the door openings and doors are on these trucks from the factory. It seems like some guys have no problems with whatever rubber they have whereas other guys have issues even with the thinner civic seals. My doors are out maybe 1/4" on both sides at the bottom and 1/8" middle of the door.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Can't wait to see what happens when door strips are installed my project, you guys have me scared.

I think we have that covered honestly, beauty of an unpainted dry-run. The guy running the body/paint took a BAH and 2x4" to the bottom of the doors. The RH rocker had been replaced. They did a good job. Turns out my truck was T-boned, the door etc. was never right, messed up the pillar too. Five hours later this guy had the RH door & fender fitting better than the LH side.

You guys notice how the front of the doors turn inward at the front? I figured that was to clear moldings. Anyway, he took a contraption to pull those out a pinch. The LH door needed it the most. We slapped the moldings on after & clearance is a non issue. At least not on this truck, and probably not my C20. Couldn't tell you why the doors are built that way.

I don't have the note in front of me, but we shimmed the RH door out some. The top was 1/8-3/16". I think the bottom less. Memory serves me the LH didn't require much in the way of shims, but I may sneak a 1/32" out for final, on top anyway.

[69Tom]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

I fit my rockers with the doors where they looked good before I put rubber on them.

Has this issue been addressed before? I'm curious to see what others say, because I'm not sure I've seen anyone say to put your door rubbers on while fitting the rockers. But it does seem to make sense.

[randy500]

Here is the door to cab fitting procedure
Ignore the door frame until the lower door is fitted, act like it isn't there.
The window frame is very malleable and needs to be persuaded into place for gap and inward outward location.

Fit the door to the rear of the cab with an even close gap while being mindful of how it fits at the rocker.
While maintaining a parallel rear gap ensure the rocker gap is also parralel
Find a happy medium on parallelism, for rocker and cab.

The lower skinned portion of the door is also malleable and may need to be twisted for best inward outward fit at rocker and cab.

Example of Twisting the door for fit the rear of the cab.
Lets say the rocker fit is good, parallel and flush front to rear with lower part of the door fitting the cab well and the upper part sticking out some.
To twist the door place a 2x2x2 block of wood in the lower rear jamb between the door door and weatherstrip lip.....forcefully push inward on the upper part of the door twisting it into fitment.

If the door sticks out st the bottom, place wood at the top and force the door inward at the bottom for an opposite twist.

Fit the door frame to the cab by beating it with a 10 pound sledge hammer and a block of wood to prevent damage. Beat the window opening inward or outward for door seal fitment.
Beat it around for nice fit to cab opening.

The above is standard body fitment procedures that were performed when the truck was built. Some were factory fit better than others or
all the parts used were perfectly in spec. And required less custom fitting.

[randy500]

Very rarely you need to shim between the hinge and pillar or the door and hinge.
Avoid if at all possible.
Sometimes though it is required.

[TA_C10]

Originally Posted by randy500

Here is the door to cab fitting procedure
Ignore the door frame until the lower door is fitted, act like it isn't there.
The window frame is very malleable and needs to be persuaded into place for gap and inward outward location.

Fit the door to the rear of the cab with an even close gap while being mindful of how it fits at the rocker.
While maintaining a parallel rear gap ensure the rocker gap is also parralel
Find a happy medium on parallelism, for rocker and cab.

The lower skinned portion of the door is also malleable and may need to be twisted for best inward outward fit at rocker and cab.

Example of Twisting the door for fit the rear of the cab.
Lets say the rocker fit is good, parallel and flush front to rear with lower part of the door fitting the cab well and the upper part sticking out some.
To twist the door place a 2x2x2 block of wood in the lower rear jamb between the door door and weatherstrip lip.....forcefully push inward on the upper part of the door twisting it into fitment.

If the door sticks out st the bottom, place wood at the top and force the door inward at the bottom for an opposite twist.

Fit the door frame to the cab by beating it with a 10 pound sledge hammer and a block of wood to prevent damage. Beat the window opening inward or outward for door seal fitment.
Beat it around for nice fit to cab opening.

The above is standard body fitment procedures that were performed when the truck was built. Some were factory fit better than others or
all the parts used were perfectly in spec. And required less custom fitting.

Soooo, what I did back when cab was in primer, I installed the doors on cab. I then aligned everything just centering the door in the cab opening the best I could. The gaps were pretty decent. I ended up having to slice the rocker open and extend it out to meet the bottom of the door. This was without rubber installed.

Now that the rubber is installed, I can get the door to look the way I mocked it up, but when I close the door all the way, it completely mashes all the rubber so badly its going to have issues.

And when I fit the door back then, I didn't shim the front of the door out(shims at hinges). So the front of the door was "sunk in" pretty far inside the door jam. I didn't think about that and the distance between inner door and rubber installed.

I may have to find a happy medium here because my friggin cab is painted and I am NOT beating on it.... I will most likely be looking at the slimmer seals from a civic or whatever... Maybe that will help. But honestly, I love how the door fits with them shimmed out 3/16 and OEM rubber. It looks right. Just the dang rocker at bottom looks like crap sunk it like it is.

Pictures coming soon.

[TA_C10]

Pictures:

Bottom of door. Hard to get a good shot and it actually show the right distance. However, it's not an inch like I thought. It's more like 1/2 inch or little less.





Here are all the inside shots, door to seals:

Front top of door:




Front bottom of door:




Top of door:




Rear of door:




Bottom of door:

[sprint_9]

Your doors will smash the seals no matter what seal you run in my findings, I tried 3 different variants. They dont fit together like a new vehicle where the seal looks nice and neat. The stock seals I pulled off before I started my resto were all smashed.

Take the seal out completely and adjust the hinges so the door fits the body good, put the rear latch plate on and line it up so it doesn't catch or rub on anything. If you want cheat the rear latch plate out a little bit so they catch and latch a little easier. Install the rubber and firmly hold the door as you slam it shut, dont just throw it shut it will hit and bounce back open. They will shut hard until the seal conforms to its new home, time in the sun will help it.

Another thing to bring into the picture is your front fenders, set them on with a bolt or two and see how they fit. If your doors are way out, and you match the fenders to that width you will have major problems getting the hood to fit. When you tore apart the truck did you take any reference pictures of shims and any alignment issues?

[TA_C10]

Thanks for reminding me about the hood Sprint. I will take everyone's advise here and go to work on them this weekend. Thanks everyone.

.

[Bigdav160]

I also use flat jaw pliers to tweak the metal seam the seals sit on

[67swb72klb]

Door hinges should never have shims on them

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by sprint_9

Your doors will smash the seals no matter what seal you run in my findings, I tried 3 different variants. They dont fit together like a new vehicle where the seal looks nice and neat. The stock seals I pulled off before I started my resto were all smashed.

Take the seal out completely and adjust the hinges so the door fits the body good, put the rear latch plate on and line it up so it doesn't catch or rub on anything. If you want cheat the rear latch plate out a little bit so they catch and latch a little easier. Install the rubber and firmly hold the door as you slam it shut, dont just throw it shut it will hit and bounce back open. They will shut hard until the seal conforms to its new home, time in the sun will help it.

Another thing to bring into the picture is your front fenders, set them on with a bolt or two and see how they fit. If your doors are way out, and you match the fenders to that width you will have major problems getting the hood to fit. When you tore apart the truck did you take any reference pictures of shims and any alignment issues?

This sounds exactly right to me.

Originally Posted by 67swb72klb

Door hinges should never have shims on them

I can't speak either way less if your fender is shimmed out then your door may need it too. The factory hardly bothered to get the body's right.

I can say "factory" replacement door hinge bolts aren't intended for shims. If my memory is right they won't take more than a 1/32". The original bolts are longer.

[TA_C10]

I'm not sure what the issue is adding spacers behind the door hinges. I cut 3/16 steel plates and drilled the holes out so it covered the whole hinge. I worked for hours adjusting these doors back and forth, up, down, sideways, blah blah. I finally got to a point I could live with. Basically I have the 3/16 spacers on top hinges. 1/8" spacers on lower hinges. The doors no longer crush the seals at the front of the door jam ALL THE WAY.

The first issue was that with no spacers, door adjustments all the way out(hinges door side adjustment) it was sunk in at the front of door jam so far that it was:
1. So sunk in it wasn't lined up with seal correctly so the seal was actually touching the back side of the door(hinge side of door) and not the face of the door to seal. I noticed there is a .5" area around the door designed for the seal to touch. It was behind that.
2. It was also so close it was crushing the seal ALL THE WAY to the metal lip basically. This of course would eventually ruin the seal, probably crease the thing over time so that it would start leaking most likely.
3. The door would get about 3/4 of the way closed on the hinges and bounce out naturally because the front of the door jam seal was pushing so hard it wouldn't shut. I could push it and slam the sucker shut but it was pushing on the metal seam that holds the seal on bending it.
4. The outer spacing of the door was sunk in tremendously, looked funny. No adjustment on the hinges fixed this. Just didn't have enough adjustment.

These are stock doors btw. So in the end, the outer spacing is now even and not sunk in anymore. It now compresses the front of jam seal still but not nearly as bad. It also is now hitting on that .5" lip or whatever its called surrounding the whole door that appears to be designed into the door for the seal to hit. It looks right. And out of all of this, the door actually hits the seal now all the way around the door like a modern vehicle does. Quite nicely. And last, the outer door spacing in the jam is even all the way around the door inside the jam. The gaps still suck but a little work adding/removing material would fix that. But this is gonna be my DD so I don't care about perfect, i'm just going for the best I can get.

Lastly, the door bottoms still stick out away from the rockers but thanks to all who have commented on this thread, I have adjusted the doors about as good as they are gonna get naturally and they are only about 1/8 to 3/16 away from rockers(spacing) now. Last thing I am going to try is maybe taking a mallet and whacking the bottom of door into place like someone suggested.




.

[RenoKeene]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

I also use flat jaw pliers to tweak the metal seam the seals sit on

Everyone seems to miss this excellent advice.
I beat my pinch weld into place with a 2x4 before it was painted, works beautifully with factory aftermarket seals. It still took about 8 hours to get the doors to fit right as they were never really meant to be that way from the factory. I did use some super thin shims behind the hinges on the passenger side.

[TA_C10]

Originally Posted by RenoKeene

Everyone seems to miss this excellent advice.
I beat my pinch weld into place with a 2x4 before it was painted, works beautifully with factory aftermarket seals. It still took about 8 hours to get the doors to fit right as they were never really meant to be that way from the factory. I did use some super thin shims behind the hinges on the passenger side.

Yeah I understand beating the pinch weld into submission, but that doesn't fix the door sunk into the jam issue I was having. It was probably sunk into the jam(measuring from the A pillar area top to bottom) a good .5". The shims fix that gap.

However, I may still knock my pinch weld a little to get that part of the seals just right. The cab is painted already, but maybe just a little whacking I can keep the paint in-tact. We will see.

.

[zeusflash]

I usually make little sheet aluminum plates for door hinge spacers. Amazing how much better the truck doors fit with spacers