47-55.1 Tips on new garage

[vintovka]

Moving to a wonderful place right on the Siuslaw river near Florence. Great place but the garage there is unusable. (Former owner turned original garage into a great shop and added a weird "garagelike" addition that only 14' deep and way too short for the 86" tall truck. Plan on building a 24 x 24 up there. May go pole barn route with concrete floor due to taxes. Any tips?

[Jemezcrusher]

Make it bigger. I thought my shop at 40x60 would be too big. I was wrong

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by Jemezcrusher

Make it bigger. I thought my shop at 40x60 would be too big. I was wrong

I wish. Barely have room for it. Saving grace it existing "garage" has 24x24 main shop (drywalled, insulated, well lit, heater, power exhaust vent, special 220 outlets for lathe/mill/welder, compressor the works. The additional 24 x14 add on can be walled off for storage and it full size gargage door with opener. the real bonus is a fully finished 9x23 "office".

Just looking for tips on type of construction for new garage . Will be mostly for storage of the 54 and other car and minor maintenance Must have metal roof to match. Siding and interior is to be determined.

[Nick_R_23]

You can never have enough outlets, never have enough workbench, and never have enough light. My home shop is 24’x28’ and has 21 LED fixtures, outlets every 4 feet at both ground height and standing height, a dedicated 20A circuit on 3 walls for a 120V welder, 3 separate 30A 220V circuits, and one 50A. The workbench is 3’x21’ and has additional bench space underneath, and below that space for larger objects or Rubbermaid tubs on the floor. It runs along the whole back wall and butts up to the air compressor.

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by Nick_R_23

You can never have enough outlets, never have enough workbench, and never have enough light. My home shop is 24’x28’ and has 21 LED fixtures, outlets every 4 feet at both ground height and standing height, a dedicated 20A circuit on 3 walls for a 120V welder, 3 separate 30A 220V circuits, and one 50A. The workbench is 3’x21’ and has additional bench space underneath, and below that space for larger objects or Rubbermaid tubs on the floor. It runs along the whole back wall and butts up to the air compressor.

I agree. Current shop is loaded. multiple outlets every 4 feet. 30, and 60 amp 220s the works. (For some strange reason ALL the outlet and switches are installed upside down)

New garage will have 110 outlets every 5-6 feet and one 220. Again it is for light maintenance only. Anyone have experience with converted pole barns or prefab metal?

[mongocanfly]

Pole barns have a tendency for the poles to rot in the ground ..over yrs though..I prefer steel myself..
Mine is a block fondation on a slab and stick frame above the blocks
If you do poles there are steps you can take to make them last longer...
If your limited by square footage you can go taller and have overhead storage..
They're right...you can never have big eough

[Nick_R_23]

I know the pre-fab units are pretty nice. If I ever move into a new place, I’d consider one of those. I don’t know how much snow you typically get where you are, but the snow load rating is an important factor to consider.

My dad built a pole barn type shed a few years back with the same idea, no foundation to skip the permanent structure tax. It turned out to be pretty expensive, almost to the point you could have just put up an actual small shop or garage. There’s also no floor, and no insulation. In hindsight he says he should have just built it as a normal building, but it was an experiment. I would probably personally skip that route, just because I’d want it to be as functional as possible.

[vintovka]

Been hearing bad news on pole barns and installers here only offer a 5 year guarantee. Will have a slab layed with j bolts and see if i can find a prefab steel or reasonable stick builder. Looking at rotator cuff surgery soon so will have arm in sling for 6 month so can't do any of what i usually do on these projects.

[joedoh]

if you are staying a while, the number one complaint I hear of guys who build garages is they wish they had poured stem walls. the number two complaint is what jemez said, size. but you expand to your space, and 24x24 would be HEAVEN for me coming from a 19x19

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by joedoh

if you are staying a while, the number one complaint I hear of guys who build garages is they wish they had poured stem walls. the number two complaint is what jemez said, size. but you expand to your space, and 24x24 would be HEAVEN for me coming from a 19x19

May be "last stop" for us so worth the $. If you saw the place you might not ever leave yourself. Will be well drained so stem wall may not be need. Absolutely jammed on size due to terrain. Having 1100 ft2 in the shop will take load off. Will start getting bids next week and post progress if that is allowed. Garage is primarily for 54. Am thinking 18' rollup (or 2 10') as getting in and out of cars and tall trucks is hard at our age and will get harder. The auto running boards add 8" of width on either side when deployed too.

[dsraven]

what I like in a garage
-2x6 walls
-not a lot of windows on the sunny side or at least windows with blinds because when you are working on stuff the sun always seems to find your eyes. shop lighting is no match for the sun so your old eyes are always trying to focus and change from dark to light. put the windows up high so you get light but the windows aren't in your way for working or placing tools or equipment. get opening windows for ventilation but with screens to keep the skeeters out
-concrete stem walls so you can wash the floor or have a really wet floor and not have an issue with water wicking up the studs or drywall. place an extra tube for wiring if underground so you can add something later if required
-outlets at a higher position on the wall, above the height of a sheet of plywood. that way you can lean a sheet of plywood or steel or whatever against the wall and still be able to plug in a tool or whatever above the sheet. no worries about blocking the plugs with a bucket or anything like that
-plugs that are split like counter plugs in the house. that way when you need 2 tools plugged in and running at the same time they re not on the same circuit
-a 20 amp plug somewhere in the middle of the wall run on each side. that way you can run a larger draw tool from most places in the bay without the extension cord and also there is less voltage drop from a less than adequate cord. like a table saw, tile saw, chop saw, etc
-all the plugs are placed within 8 ft of each other or less. that way there is no need to have extension cords all the time. place plugs closer at the workbench
-outside plugs on each wall of the garage so you can plug something in on any side outside
-a motion sensor light near the man door
-lots of light. I have a 26 x 30 garage and have 8ft of light strip at the front over the bench, 3-4 ft'ers down the middle and 2-4ft'ers on each side spaced out so they would light up the rear wheel area and the front wheel area if a vehicle were parked in there. there is also a regular light socket above each door and an outside light high up on each outside wall. the attic space also has a couple regular light sockets up there one at each end with a switch in the attic at the hatch. the garage door openers are also on a switch by themselves not located with the rest of the switches inside the man door. so they can be easily turned off when I go somewhere and if someone were to break in they would have some trouble finding the switch
-enough slope on the concrete floor so water will run off nicely but not too much slope or the tools all roll away and sometimes the toolbox also wants to roll some. everything ends up at the garage door
-my garage has drywall but if I were to do it again I might sheet it with corrugated metal siding that overlaps the concrete stub wall. that way I could weld or grind and not have the spatter stuck to the walls. I could also pressure wash the walls if the electrical was sealed like an outside plug
a compressor and welder plug at each front corner so if you change your mind about floor set up you can move the compressor or the workbench
-an exhaust fan built in would be an asset if you plan to do much fab work or painting. I wish I had installed one
-I live in a cold climate in Calgary so instead of a wide single door I went with 2 smaller single doors. that way the heat doesn't all blow out the door if it needs to be open for a few minutes at -30C
-some overhead heat of some kind that is out of the way so not to interfere with normal overhead work in the garage. mine is a natural gas unit heater situated in a front corner of the garage so it blows warm air slightly across the front of the 2 bays but also angled to cause a swirl effect around the perimeter of the garage. that way there is no heat blowing on your forehead when you need to work at the front of the bay where we usually do and also the radiant heaters work good but don't heat up fast like a unit heater does. a combination of both would be good I suppose except for no radiant heater over the workbench. your forehead would get too hot to work
room on each side of the garage doors if possible because the edges of the bays are where stuff collects so that will leave you room to work/park etc
-overhead plumbed air lines with hose reels on the ceiling or drop lines with quick connects for hoses placed appropriately. I have 2 reels at the front, one on each side 1/2 way down each bay and 1 in the middle of the bays 1/2 way down. then at the garage doors in the pillar between the doors there is a drop line with a quick connect. the hose reel in the middle is 50 ft the others are 25. I use them all and am glad I bought them
-a cord reel mounted in the ceiling of the middle of the bay so access can be from either side if required. for stuff like trouble lights that you drag everywhere or the battery charger that runs while you are working etc. not tripping over cords that way
-some pegboard or slat board near the workbench to store the stuff you use all the time. safety glasses, hearing protection, crescent wrenches, hammer, oil filter wrench. you know, the necessities
-lateral filing cabinets make great storage units for larger tools so they are stored out of sight but easily accessible. the cabinets look better than a bunch of stuff hanging on the walls and are moveable if you change the floor layout plan. my garage has both, stuff hanging and also filing cabinets
-when you get the area set up for the compressor try to run the air intake for the compressor into the attic or outside with the air filter on the end of that pipe. the noise level in the shop will be better and usually the air will be cleaner outside than in the work area. for me, in the winter, the attic air is cooler so more molecules per cubic inch than the warmer shop air plus the cooler air holds less moisture so less water in the compressor
-an auto drain for the air compressor wired in to the shop lights so when you are in the shop and the lights are on the compressor tank will purge the water out of the tank, assuming the compressor is running when you are in the shop. a muffler on the purge line and/or an outside dump for the purge line would be nice as they are noisy and can scare the crap out of a visitor (haha). I use a 5 gallon bucket with the hose just placed in a hole in the lid and a few other holes to let air out in a hurry. it muffles but is still loud. the bucket collects the moisture. in moist climates you may need to dump the bucket periodically so it doesn't start to grow things and smell bad.
-I have shelving all around the shop just below the ceiling far enough to allow storage bins. my ceiling is 10 ft so there is room to walk under the shelves and/or open a truck door without hitting a shelf. I have an old step ladder with the one side removed but the top plate still attached like an "L" shape. the L is long enough to rest the ladder tip on the shelf to hold the ladder secure while you climb. a lot like a library ladder without the track and wheels to move it along. below the shelves are angled brackets that hold the4 ft light strips at an angle so the light the shop better but under the shelf so they don't get bumped and also don't collect as much dust
-a man door at the height of the floor so no steps needed in the shop floor space or directly outside the shop door. it makes it easier to get wheeled equipment in and out. some would say put the man door on one side. there are pros and cons. some would say put the man door in the middle between the bays of a 2 bay garage because that way you don't enter into the front of a vehicle that is parked in that bay. instead you enter into the open space between the bays that is usually clear
-the man door needs to be a 36" wide door so entry with equipment or hands full of parts is easier and larger stuff can be brought in through the man door instead of only through the big door. that way parts or equipment can be brought in even if your truck is in the garage being worked on with stuff laying around all over the shop
-a plate secured to the floor at the front of each bay would be nice in case you need to winch a unit into the bay or need to attach a come along to pull some thing. even if it is just the anchor bolts in the floor that you can attach the plate to when required. support in the concrete would be done when the concrete is poured
-garage door operator buttons at the man door into the garage and also at the big door end of the garage
-a large attic access scuttle hatch with plywood boxed in so you can get up into the attic without dropping insulation down in your eyes. my garage has 18" of blown in insulation and above that there is a plywood floor sitting. I have lots of stuff stored up there out of the way but easily accessible. stuff you wanna keep but don't use that much
-I spec'd the truss system for clay roof tiles rather than just shingles. that way the roof is able to hold more weight than a regular roof would. I am able to store stuff in the attic without the worry of a heavy snow load plus the "stuff" load. I was going to double truss a set around the front of the bay in case I would ever need to hang something from the ceiling. I never did do that but have used the scuttle hatch opening to hang one end of a motorcycle while doing suspension work. I use the engine lift instead for most stuff but sometimes it would be handy. I have used my air lines to hang stuff that gets painted
-good door seals to keep the bugs and varmits out and the heat in when it's cold outside
-install the tallest garage door you can, up to a point. you gotta leave room for the opener.
-a fence post at each corner outside the garage footprint will help ensure nobody hits the eves on the corner as they drive around and past the garage. it has saved my garbage truck driver a few times
-and here is the big "best for last" tip. ensure the floor slopes so water drains to the middle of the bay instead of the corners and also ensure the apron outside the bay doors is sloped nicely away from the garage doors so water doesn't run back to the door and freeze the door to the floor when it is cold out (you get cold there sometimes, right?).

[dsraven]

hey, you asked. the list got long. sorry.

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by dsraven

hey, you asked. the list got long. sorry.

No problem and advice worthy of being a "sticky" for all forum to read. In my case much of what you suggest i already have in the existing shop. Some "new to me" advice as well. Thank you!.

i should emphasize the existing shop has a 16' 7' high door but only 14' deep. Could do some heavy repairs with half of bed sticking out. Now too old for that stuff.

Very mild climate here with mostly rain and salt air from ocean less than a mile away. No real snow load issues.

My planned garage site is very, very limited. Giant trees on either side and 45% stable down slope behind 30% upslope ajacent. All we need is a place big enough for the tall 54 AD and our SUV. 24x24 should accommodate both and some very light maintenance. Not sure even a 220 outlet is needed. But would be nice for resale after we are gone. Now struggling with prefab metal vs stick built. Must haves now include an 18' 8' high door, 10 high ceiling,
some electric , forest green sheet metal roof to match house and other garage. Windows in rollup door and maybe back would be nice. If stickbuilt Hardiback back and rear siding and a cedar shingled front. All slabs around here have a recess in bottom door opening to prevent rain enrty. Stem wall would be ok if not expensive.

[_Ogre]

never been a fan of pole barns, my son in law is fighting with his 40 yr old telephone pole barn, the poles are rotting at the base, we did a lot of work to his shop before they moved in. we had to jack the ridge up, used a come-along to pull the walls in and added lots of rafter and wall bracing. i told him to plan on building a new shop in the future, to bad, cuz it's a nice 20x40 space

my preference is 2x6 walls on slab with a minimum 100 amp electrical service. pole barns always have either a lot of work to wire or a lot of work building walls to wire properly. my space is 50x50 with a 30x50 upstairs, it is pretty sweet. nothing upstairs 'cept for half court basketball and a big swing. parking for 4 cars without taking up any shop space.

[vintovka]

Here brush grows a foot overnight and untreated wood rots even faster. Heavily treated poles sunk in our pure, fast draining sand seem to last byt not forever. Still like concrete slab.

[joedoh]

one thing to consider. if the garage is detached and will hold your daily drivers, what is the likelihood you will shut the garage door every time you come and go? without it being attached, doing things like carrying in groceries or ducking the rain might mean you dont shut the garage door very much, and a carport makes more sense. just a thought.

Originally Posted by vintovka

24x24 should accommodate both and some very light maintenance.

I have ground up built 8 trucks in a 19x19. you will be fine.

[jwhotrod]

when i built my "pole building" i had the columns set on a frost wall so nothing wood was concreted into the ground. the shop is 60x102 with 20" sidewalls. so nothing wrong with pole type buildings if they are built right. Mine is a WICK building with laminated (3 2x8) on 6'8" centers, hot water heat in the floor, i LOVE it. So i would say whatever size you can and want to build make it tall enough for a lift (12' min 14' preferred). good luck

[vintovka]

Ok my 54 (in the pic ) is 86" tall and have get 89" with rollup door inmy cuurent garage at the beach property. 10 foot framing works fine for me. its the 16' door thats the problem. Have to be careful NOT to have the power running boards deployed when pulling in or out lest disaster occur.

FWIW the idea of frost wall footing for the posts is interest but how do they resist lateral loads from wind and seismic. Any pics or links?

[vintovka]

Damn upside down pic again! If anyone can help right it? I'm at a loss!! Makes me nauseous to look at it sorry!!

[mr48chev]

That sounds like a great area to be in.

I flipped the photo.

This outfit has a dealer about 8 miles from me but I don't see any dealers in Oregon. https://steelstructuresamerica.com/ They use that system.

That gets the bottom of the wood post several inches above ground level.
This outfit has a dealer about 8 miles from me but I don't see any dealers in Oregon. https://steelstructuresamerica.com/ They use that system.

Can't blame you for wanting a separate "garage" to go along with the shop.

[vintovka]

Thanks for the "flip". Should mention the garage pictured was built specifically for the truck and 10' allows hood to be fully opened as shown. The one shown was built 24x30 as site conditions would not allow a bigger one. The new garage site is also tight and why it will be for storage only. The circular drive way allow for unloading stuff at back door. Yes its tough during a downpour but we always wait it out. The location is astounding especially at night looking at the city lights across the river and all the boats.

[mr48chev]

Evidently the "great shop" doesn't have a vehicle size door anymore? Meaning that if it does, you have a shop that you can do serious work in and are building a garage and have that too short for a full size rig space for what ever.

Found a page with several options for the base of the posts.
https://polebarnsdirect.com/options/...ation-options/

[dsraven]

what about screw piles?
https://propostfoundations.com/screw-piles/
there are a lot of different ones available. they use them a lot for modular homes and decks etc. should hold up a garage i would think. maybe worth checking into but may depend on ground conditions in the area.

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Evidently the "great shop" doesn't have a vehicle size door anymore? Meaning that if it does, you have a shop that you can do serious work in and are building a garage and have that too short for a full size rig space for what ever.

Sadly the former owner did some strange but nice stuff. He tore down the orig 2 car garage. rebuilt it keeping some parts and adding others. He kept the original 8x16' door opening added a 8x 14' single level "garage" in front along with the side office. Way too short for the 54 but smaller cars can be pulled all the way into the "shop" area. Hows that for convoluted? Pics are from listing before we took possession

[mick53]

I'm a commercial general contractor. My projects run from $30- $60 million range but I started out in the residential game. A few things to consider might be: Run your foundation wall above your floor. I went 18". It keeps your sill plate dry, makes it easy to hose out and is a cheep way to gain height. I used 12' studs giving me a 13'6" ceiling height for my lift. Also room for hanging shelves. Make sure your trusses are engineered for this. Definitely use 2X6 walls for insulation. Keep your windows high enough so folks can't look in and take inventory. I put OSB on the interior walls so I can screw things anywhere and have durability. I am in the process of adding about 200 square feet of shelving at $1.75 a square foot. Check your local zoning regulations. Where I live if detached the garage can only be a certain percentage of the size of the house. If attached it doesn't matter and you have 1 free wall. Also nice in the winter. Ceiling fans and a dehumidifier are a must where I live. Something we do is put the plumbing for a bathroom in the slab and skim coat the concrete over it until the tax man shows up and then uncover it. I am currently upgrading to LED lights. They have come way down in price. If you might get a lift down the road thicken the slab up a few inches in that area. This will cost almost nothing. We almost never use welded wire in the slab. Use 3/8" bar 3' on center. Not a lot of cost difference if any. Keep your dimensions modular in that lumber comes in 2' increments.