Stock height with wide wheels??

[burnie6bt]

Good Afternoon,

I am in the process of planning some changes for my c10, current has a drop 4/6?? considering going back to stock height with 12" wide wheels and a negative offset for an aggressive stance.

Want to address a couple of things:
-Current suspension is very bouncy, is that normal in these trucks or a spring and/or shock issue?
-Is stock suspension very bouncy? recommendations on stock height or lowered shocks?
-Any photos of guys running 2wd stock or slightly lowered with wide wheels? 1-2" past fender?

Picture is of the current truck

[bigmac73]

truck looks good as is, I would never lower one period but your does have a nice stance

[RustyPile]

Several factors contribute to a "bouncy ride".. In most cases, lowering reduces suspension travel. Spring stiffness, contact with suspension stops, and tire design all contribute to a "bouncy ride"..

I'm not sure of the total amount of lowering on my truck.. I have 2" dropped spindles and 1" dropped springs on the front.. On the rear, I have 3" lowering blocks.. My truck originally came with an I6.. It now has a BBC in it.. Tires on the front are 60 series, and rears are 50 series, with Bilstein (sp) shocks on all 4 corners.. My truck rides like a large passenger car.. No "bouncy ride" at all..

[HO455]

Are rear shock mounts still factory? With the factory shock geometry the lower the truck goes the more horizontal the shocks get and the less effective they are, leading to a bouncy ride. A common issue on our trucks that have the rear coil springs.

This is in addition to what RustyPile said.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by burnie6bt

Good Afternoon,

I am in the process of planning some changes for my c10, current has a drop 4/6?? considering going back to stock height with 12" wide wheels and a negative offset for an aggressive stance.

Want to address a couple of things:
-Current suspension is very bouncy, is that normal in these trucks or a spring and/or shock issue?
-Is stock suspension very bouncy? recommendations on stock height or lowered shocks?
-Any photos of guys running 2wd stock or slightly lowered with wide wheels? 1-2" past fender?

Picture is of the current truck

Welcome to the forum and sharp truck. 1-2" past the fender, as in sticking out past the fender, is illegal in some areas. But ANYway, I do applaud your desire to return to normal ride height on a long bed truck (standing by for the tomato throwing ) - an aggressive stance can be had with wide+tall (inside the fender lip) and a narrower wheel/tire on the front. (for ex. 275/60/15 out back on an 8" wheel (rally, for example). I'd avoid low profile (like 50 series, etc) on the back (if you're sticking with 15" wheels) as the wheels will look short and fat (way too short) in the monster rear wheelwell. If you're going with non-stock diameter, like 18s, 20s, etc - then you'll need advice from someone younger than me. Personally... I think your truck would look great if ALL you did was swap on white steelies with PO3 caps all the way around. Anyway, as you can see, everyone around here will have an opinion, but the only one that matters for your truck is yours. Welcome

[burnie6bt]

Originally Posted by bigmac73

truck looks good as is, I would never lower one period but your does have a nice stance

Thank you for the compliment, I have went back and forth on many setups, my end goal is to create a more driver based truck. I hate not driving it, currently this truck has been in my family since the mid 80's. Was my grandpas farm truck until he passed in 1990, then my Dad restored it in 1995, My and Dad and I did some minor updating in 2006/2007, My Dad passed away in 2008 so it sat for about 5 years with minimal driving while I was in college. The past 5-6 years has been getting in a good running condition. New brakes, master cylinder, bearings, rear disc swap, axle bearing, carb rebuild, plugs, wires, etc.

Am image of both the 1995 restoration with my cousin and the truck in 1987 when it was a farm truck!



I forgot how to do multiple quotes my apologies haven't spent much time on a forum posting for years.

Thank you for all the feedback!

I will look into the shock angle and try to get some pictures this week. My guess is the shocks are in need of replacing its been awhile. I don't remember it always being this bouncy but when I was younger I am certain I also cared less!

Current wheels are 20x9 with a 275/45, they don't look bad but would like to change it up. I am a big fan of the 20x10 or 20x11 white steelies with factory dog dishes! I also am not always a fan of the lowered longbed sometimes it looks good, sometimes I think I need to chop it. When I see the factory height or small lowering/level with wheels that stick out a bit I always like them so I figured why not. Its a truck after all, saving money on suspension yields more $$$ to play with under the hood.

[68Stepbed]

Judging from the first photo, the truck appears to have either a 2/4 or 3/5 drop. As others have said, the bouncy ride can come from multiple factors.

Here's a few things to think about. The stock shock angle on these truck was undesirable anyway. As you lower them, it gets worse. Most lowering kits include shock relocator brackets, which actually only change the angle, but can still be in an awkward angle when lowered more than 5-6". A true shock relocation kit like THIS ONE from NoLimit will correct most issues.

Another factor is the panhard bar(assuming it's a coil spring rear). Once lowered, the bar's position is compromised and creates a side shifting feeling when hitting bumps. Addressing this with an adjustable relocated bar. AZ Pro Performance sells this kit. -->https://azproperformance.com/collect...2-c10-6372-008

Another factor can be the method in which it was lowered. Many people back in the day would just heat the springs with a torch until it settled where they wanted it. This is THE WORST way to lower anything!!!! Proper drop springs will ride better since they're built with the proper amount of drop.

As for wheels and tires, I'm not going to tell you NOT to do what you're thinking, but I will tell you that 15" tires are becoming limited, especially street tires that will fit a 15x12. However, 15x10s with 275/60s will always be an option. Also, the Silvertown Radial may still available in a 285/70/15 which would certainly fill the wheel wells up in the rear.

The current wheels look to be either 18" or 20" wheels with obviously low profile tires. Just switching back to 15" tires may even help the ride as the taller sidewall should provide a bit of a cushion.

All that said, my advice before spending alot of money, make sure exactly what's under the truck. If need be, crawl underneath and take lots of photos and post here and we may be able to tell you what you have. Take detailed pics of the springs, the backside of the spindles, and all shocks and shock mounts. If the springs look new, look for part numbers printed on them. Most companies mark their springs. Many of us are willing to help you get YOUR truck the way YOU want it. We may have our opinions, but the end result is you being happy with it.

[burnie6bt]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

Judging from the first photo, the truck appears to have either a 2/4 or 3/5 drop. As others have said, the bouncy ride can come from multiple factors.

Here's a few things to think about. The stock shock angle on these truck was undesirable anyway. As you lower them, it gets worse. Most lowering kits include shock relocator brackets, which actually only change the angle, but can still be in an awkward angle when lowered more than 5-6". A true shock relocation kit like THIS ONE from NoLimit will correct most issues.

Another factor is the panhard bar(assuming it's a coil spring rear). Once lowered, the bar's position is compromised and creates a side shifting feeling when hitting bumps. Addressing this with an adjustable relocated bar. AZ Pro Performance sells this kit. -->https://azproperformance.com/collect...2-c10-6372-008

Another factor can be the method in which it was lowered. Many people back in the day would just heat the springs with a torch until it settled where they wanted it. This is THE WORST way to lower anything!!!! Proper drop springs will ride better since they're built with the proper amount of drop.

As for wheels and tires, I'm not going to tell you NOT to do what you're thinking, but I will tell you that 15" tires are becoming limited, especially street tires that will fit a 15x12. However, 15x10s with 275/60s will always be an option. Also, the Silvertown Radial may still available in a 285/70/15 which would certainly fill the wheel wells up in the rear.

The current wheels look to be either 18" or 20" wheels with obviously low profile tires. Just switching back to 15" tires may even help the ride as the taller sidewall should provide a bit of a cushion.

All that said, my advice before spending alot of money, make sure exactly what's under the truck. If need be, crawl underneath and take lots of photos and post here and we may be able to tell you what you have. Take detailed pics of the springs, the backside of the spindles, and all shocks and shock mounts. If the springs look new, look for part numbers printed on them. Most companies mark their springs. Many of us are willing to help you get YOUR truck the way YOU want it. We may have our opinions, but the end result is you being happy with it.

Thank you for the feedback, I crawled under last night and have not looked at the shocks specifically prior. In the rear the shocks are at a pretty horizontal position and the bump stops are maybe 1" from the axle. I'm sure those are major contributors!

Also many of you have mentioned 15" diameter wheels, NOT looking to go this route. My original post was a bit misleading. Thinking stock height with 20x12 wheels and 315/35r20 tire.

I was curious as to how these trucks ride at stock height, I know there are a plethora of aftermarket options to make these trucks handle on rails low. More curious as to options to improve at stock height.

I will get some pictures and snag some part numbers tomorrow.

[siggyfreud]

That tire size shouldn't be an issue at stock height. I'm lower and running 315 on all 4 corners. 20x12 wheels on the front might be an issue, as at full lock the inside of the wheels are going to hit the stock lower shock mount. This is the reason I'm currently going to a coilover setup. I doubt a different offset would clear it, especially since you're trying to go even further out than I did. I have 20x11 front and 20x12 rear.

[burnie6bt]

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

That tire size shouldn't be an issue at stock height. I'm lower and running 315 on all 4 corners. 20x12 wheels on the front might be an issue, as at full lock the inside of the wheels are going to hit the stock lower shock mount. This is the reason I'm currently going to a coilover setup. I doubt a different offset would clear it, especially since you're trying to go even further out than I did. I have 20x11 front and 20x12 rear.

Do you have any pictures of the rub on the front by chance? Please don't go take a picture just thought if you had one for me to look at.

[siggyfreud]

This is not my photo, but another users photo I have drawn a circle on for where you'll get rubbing at/close to full lock.

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by burnie6bt

Thank you for the feedback, I crawled under last night and have not looked at the shocks specifically prior. In the rear the shocks are at a pretty horizontal position and the bump stops are maybe 1" from the axle. I'm sure those are major contributors!

Also many of you have mentioned 15" diameter wheels, NOT looking to go this route. My original post was a bit misleading. Thinking stock height with 20x12 wheels and 315/35r20 tire.

I was curious as to how these trucks ride at stock height, I know there are a plethora of aftermarket options to make these trucks handle on rails low. More curious as to options to improve at stock height.

I will get some pictures and snag some part numbers tomorrow.

OK, I went back to read your comments, and yeah, you only said 12" wide wheels. My bad.

So, Ill try to answer the questions.

As for how the 20x12s will look with stock height, honestly hard to say. I imagine it'll have a definitive Yee Yee truck look. But, if that's the look you're after, that may do it.

As for ride and handling, well that's the unequal parallel. Better handling comes from a lower center of gravity, which means shorter, stiffer springs and shocks that offer less travel and higher spring rates that firm up the suspension to keep the suspension planted during a corner. Stock height will offer taller springs and lots of travel resulting in a smooth ride at the expense of extreme body roll, and poor handling. The only option I know of to improve the handling at stock height is installing the biggest sway bars you can find.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[68Stepbed]

A quick Google search led me to this. Is this the look you're after?

https://www.customwheeloffset.com/wh...-triumph-stock

[siggyfreud]

I think relative to the example that 68Step provided the truck you have now looks way better at its height.

If you're concerned about height perhaps consider air springs so you have some adjustability. With the right setup they'll handle extremely well.

[burnie6bt]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

OK, I went back to read your comments, and yeah, you only said 12" wide wheels. My bad.

So, Ill try to answer the questions.

As for how the 20x12s will look with stock height, honestly hard to say. I imagine it'll have a definitive Yee Yee truck look. But, if that's the look you're after, that may do it.

As for ride and handling, well that's the unequal parallel. Better handling comes from a lower center of gravity, which means shorter, stiffer springs and shocks that offer less travel and higher spring rates that firm up the suspension to keep the suspension planted during a corner. Stock height will offer taller springs and lots of travel resulting in a smooth ride at the expense of extreme body roll, and poor handling. The only option I know of to improve the handling at stock height is installing the biggest sway bars you can find.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

Well to be honest I am going back and forth on two extremes. One is go back to stock height/wide offset wheels OR go more pro touring route. Where I am currently at is evaluating my ACTUAL use of the truck. I love the idea of pro-touring however I don't believe I will ever actual race or push the limits. So to me that is money wasted. Therefore I would define my use as summer daily driver, actually put things in the bed, potentially tow a boat, maybe a drag strip to play around, and add modern features.

Stepping back and evaluating suspension wise making it ride nice (not necessarily handle as in carve corners), ability to tow some things, and I like sitting up a little higher.

SO this thread, which may not have been clear, was started to understand what stock height trucks ride like and how can you improve upon that at stock height.

If I were to summarize:
-Factory Height Springs
-Good Shocks
-Rear Shock Relocation
-Upgrade Front Sway Bar
-Rear Sway Bars
-Potential Aftermarket Panhard

Am I missing something/anything?

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

A quick Google search led me to this. Is this the look you're after?

Yes I very much like the look of that truck, the 22" wheels are a bit much. But the height and wide look is appealing to me.

https://www.customwheeloffset.com/wh...-triumph-stock

Originally Posted by siggyfreud

I think relative to the example that 68Step provided the truck you have now looks way better at its height.

If you're concerned about height perhaps consider air springs so you have some adjustability. With the right setup they'll handle extremely well.

Thank you, don't get me wrong I don't think it looks bad by any means, ready to change it up. I'll never get rid of the truck (been in the family 3 generations) so thinking if I go back to stock height its not that expensive and if I dislike it I can change it up later.

Are air springs different than air bags? I have considered airbags.

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by burnie6bt

Well to be honest I am going back and forth on two extremes. One is go back to stock height/wide offset wheels OR go more pro touring route. Where I am currently at is evaluating my ACTUAL use of the truck. I love the idea of pro-touring however I don't believe I will ever actual race or push the limits. So to me that is money wasted. Therefore I would define my use as summer daily driver, actually put things in the bed, potentially tow a boat, maybe a drag strip to play around, and add modern features.

Stepping back and evaluating suspension wise making it ride nice (not necessarily handle as in carve corners), ability to tow some things, and I like sitting up a little higher.

SO this thread, which may not have been clear, was started to understand what stock height trucks ride like and how can you improve upon that at stock height.

If I were to summarize:
-Factory Height Springs
-Good Shocks
-Rear Shock Relocation
-Upgrade Front Sway Bar
-Rear Sway Bars
-Potential Aftermarket Panhard

Am I missing something/anything?

By the looks of the truck as it sits now, it's certainly not a 4/6 drop. Keep in mind that most of these trucks have been sitting on stock springs for 50+/- years, so they've settled and sagged. Several years ago, I decided to lower mine just a little more than the stock springs. I ordered 1" front and 2" rear drop springs. It actually raised the truck about an inch all the way around. I was very aggravated with that, but learned a valuable lesson.

Not trying to talk you out of stock replacements, just letting you know that they actually sit much higher than you may think.

My suggestion is to start looking at LOTS of photos of trucks with various drops and decide the look you're after.

As for a full on Pro-touring suspension, yes, at that point, it's almost purpose built to handle, but if you're not going that route, it is overkill.

As for hauling a few light duty things like boats or small campers, there's still quite a few guys that tow these with lowered suspensions. Some may just add a helper bag that fits inside the coil spring to keep it from sagging.

So, again, my advice is to figure out exactly what you have for suspension. Order appropriate parts to do what you want.

If you go stock height, there's really no need in ordering shock relocators or aftermarket panhard bars. Neither of those are necessary until you go 4" or more drop in the rear. Just springs and a good set of stock replacement shocks are all that's needed.

[burnie6bt]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

By the looks of the truck as it sits now, it's certainly not a 4/6 drop. Keep in mind that most of these trucks have been sitting on stock springs for 50+/- years, so they've settled and sagged. Several years ago, I decided to lower mine just a little more than the stock springs. I ordered 1" front and 2" rear drop springs. It actually raised the truck about an inch all the way around. I was very aggravated with that, but learned a valuable lesson.

Not trying to talk you out of stock replacements, just letting you know that they actually sit much higher than you may think.

My suggestion is to start looking at LOTS of photos of trucks with various drops and decide the look you're after.

As for a full on Pro-touring suspension, yes, at that point, it's almost purpose built to handle, but if you're not going that route, it is overkill.

As for hauling a few light duty things like boats or small campers, there's still quite a few guys that tow these with lowered suspensions. Some may just add a helper bag that fits inside the coil spring to keep it from sagging.

So, again, my advice is to figure out exactly what you have for suspension. Order appropriate parts to do what you want.

If you go stock height, there's really no need in ordering shock relocators or aftermarket panhard bars. Neither of those are necessary until you go 4" or more drop in the rear. Just springs and a good set of stock replacement shocks are all that's needed.

Thank you so much for the input, I did a little digging and took some pictures this weekend.

Also looking at the article below it sounds like moving the shocks behind the axle and outside the frame will improve wheel hop and body roll receptively. Seems like from a geometry stand point it would help regardless of height. However I could see a much greater impact at a lower center of gravity to your point.
http://nolimit.net/tech-center/67-c1...it-1963-72-old

The images below appear to have the bump stops very close, this may be causing some of the problems. The front springs appear to be aftermarket as they look to be coated yellow not just painted. The shocks seem to be almost an economy grade. Couldn't grab any part numbers but just observations. I like the idea of air springs for a couple reasons: 1. Having a "park height" then like a "low speed driving" and "high speed driving" setting 2. For load leveling when towing or the bed is full.

Anyone done a factory height truck with air springs? all I have seen is slammed / 4"+ drop on air

The information has been very helpful thanks again!

[siggyfreud]

I was going to go with air springs, but Ridetech just changed their front setup for our rides to use a bag and shock vs. their shockwave air springs, and that wouldn't work for the width of my front wheels.

If you end up liking the height but want more travel you might consider going with a taller spring, but using a drop spindle. You'll remain lower, but get greater suspension travel which will help with ride quality and give you more room before hitting the bump stops.

[68Stepbed]

Before moving any further, that rusty crossmember needs to be addressed!! That's rather concerning and could lead to catastrophic failure pretty soon.

If you notice, that side is sitting on the bumpstops vs the other side that's about 1/2" from touching.

[special-K]

On a stock height truck, wider stance does serve to compensate for the higher center of gravity in handling. Sway bars and the right shocks will give more. But obviously lowering it is the best way to, uh, lower the center of gravity .