How technical should we get?

[66 C10 383]

I am not trying to open a can or worms or start any arguments. Just a nice friendly discussion. I understand there are
several ways to get things done. I'd like your opinions.

I've built old school small block Chevys so I've got a good idea what I'm doing until I get to these LS engines. I know a
1000hp engine build is going to be a lot more involved than a 350hp street motor. That's what I'm building, an under 500hp
street motor. I'm 60 years old now. I want to build it once, install it, and drive it anywhere in the U.S. I want to go
without worry. That's why I'm taking the time to freshen it up with new rings & bearings, cam & lifters, gaskets & seals,
etc so I don't have to rely on a salvage yard engine with unknown miles on it. Yeah, it's cheaper to replace than to rebuild,
(throw-away world getting to engines now ... ) but I want to know what I'm installing IS ready for another lifetime
worth of service. I'm looking for factory reliability or better. If I could afford a crate engine, I'd go that route for the warranty reasons but that's not in my budget.

So, with that being said, just how technical should a guy get when freshening up one of the engines?

I've seen engine builds where people use the $100 cover alignment tools and some don't. Some disassemble the oil pump
to shim it to the crank and some just slide it on and torque it down. I've seen guys that go thru the firing order to torque
down the rockers and again, some just put them on the rocker stands and torque them dowm. Some people will de-torque the heads in reverse order when removing them. I've even seen some reuse the tty headbolts (yes, I'm replacing mine).

I can see doing upgrades to increase the reliability as in better parts - LS7 lifters, newer style timing chains, stuff like
that.

What's your thoughts on all this? What needs to be done and when do you start getting into overkill?

[gmc684x4]

Rebuilding new rings and bearings I would definitely be doing oil pump and water pump
I would not ring and bearing a small block and reuse the oil pump
summit and rock auto there not that expensive 70 bucks or so

Seen power nation the other day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGoqwDw5Xw

I watched this I would not have reused the rings

[LS short box]

I've done a number LS swaps with junk yard engines and totally rebuilt engines. If you gojunk yard I'd have them pull the valve covers to if it's clean and if it is it means the oil has most likely been changed regluary. Also a compression check will tell the tale on ring seal and valve seal. If you purchase used I would replace the timing chain and oil pump. If you plan to rebuild something I would buy a 6.0. Iron block engines are going to cheaper than aluminum block engines. Doesn't cost more to build than a 5.3. If you get a later model 6.0 it will have the better L92 heads. If you decide on a bigger cam you will need new valve springs and push rods. I've used the LS7 lifters on rebuilds. I have the front alignment tool for the front cover. Before I had that I used a buddy's front balancer that he honed out slightly so it would slip over the crank to align the front cover. Use the feeler gauges to align the oil pump. Rocker trunion upgrade? All depends on engine mileage. Hate to have a bunch of tiny needle bearings in the engine? New rear seal? I would.
I like doing things right and doing it once. Not a fan of putting a engine in and then have troubles with it. Kind of takes the fun out of a project.
Good luck with your project.

[AussieinNC]

How technical should we get is a good question...I build engines to my own preferences, using factory tolerances and materials...over 30 LS so far with two in process right now...

One of the often overlooked aspects of any engine build is the oil system as a total piece.

LS engines, due to the design of placing the oil pump at the front of the engine, necessitating an extra long oil pickup tube to bring the oil from back of the engine to the front. To seal this pickup tube to the oil pump, a simple O ring is used...and that is where so many issues can come up....a badly installed pickup O ring can and will cause many low pressure oil problems.

The "dumbell" at the rear of the block inside the oil gallery should be upgraded to a billet unit to ensure all oil is sent through the oil filter.

The oil system bypass cover can be drilled and tapped to accept an oil gauge or turbo lube line fitting if needed.

The oil pump itself should be considered an automatic replacement piece.
There are plenty of videos available that detail the shimming process to ensure the pump is centered around the crank snout.

These oil pumps must be primed before initial rebuild start up.

The timing chain used is a single row that in most street cases is good for over 200,000 miles. Performance applications include a double row chain (needs the pump to be spaced off of the engine by 1/4"). New design timing covers are available with new seals already installed.

Rear crank covers have been redesigned and are available with seals installed. An alignment sleeve is available to center the rear cover correctly over the crank.

Better lifters (closer tolerances internally and larger roller diameters) are readily available.

TTY fasteners should never be reused IMHO...use new factory style or go all out and use ARP studs.

Cams re readily available. It is essential that the cam bearings be replaced and correctly sized upon installation.

New rings and bearings...always...IMHO...

New valve springs always...IMHO...

New water pump always...IMHO...

Make sure the block decks are parallel to the crank centerline.
Cylinder heads should be crack tested...

Hope this helps...

Be safe

[Heavymetl]

The reliability of an LS swap will be more dependent on the quality of the wiring, plumbing, and fuel system than the engine itself.

Fwiw, I've used many junkyard engines with great success over the last 9 years. The only bottom end I've had fail was a thrust bearing in one I had rebuilt before installing in the race car. The factory stuff is just outstanding. Tough to improve upon for a mild build IMO.

[LS short box]

Just .02.
I've used ARP on the head, crank and rod bolts. Double check clearances when using "good" bolts. Never built anything hp wise that needed to fully "studded".
So much fun to spend other peoples money!

[mongocanfly]

I bought a low mileage LS3 and am gonna run it stock...maybe, I think...
around 450hp..this was after considering building a 5.3 to the same hp level...
Got a good deal on the LS3/tr6060, so that made my mind up....

[66 C10 383]

Here was my original plans.

I bought a salvage yard 5.3 4L60E combo from a guy on Craigslist. He bought several from a salvage yard just to resell
for swaps. Mileage is technically unknown (they could have told him anything). It's either a 1999 or 2000 from a
Tahoe/Surburban (AC compressor has a line for rear AC).

I bought a set of 862 heads (supposedly less crack prone) that I could get ready to swap out. So, the heads get new
valve seals and LS6 valve springs and the valves get hand lapped. The heads will get torqued in sequence with new bolts.

Doing a BTR Stage 4 truck cam so I'm doing a cam swap and I'll be replacing the lifters. The timing cover has to come
off so the front cover gasket and seal gets replaced too. I'd never get that deep without replacing the oil pump and
timing set.

I bought a CTSV pan so the pan gasket gets replaced. I'm replacing the valley cover with an LS6 version so all that
leaves is the rear cover gasket and seal. They get replaced too.

That leaves me down to the original short block. No heads, no oil pan ... I might as well pop out the pistons and hone it,
new rings and bearings and put it all back together.

I wasn't planning on getting this deep in this, new cam and lifters, head gaskets, timing chain and oil pump. One thing leads to another.

I've seen a "throw it back together" assembly attitude and I've seen surgical precision with the alignment tools and all that.

[mongocanfly]

("BTR Stage 4 truck cam ")
those sound so nice..!!!

[66 C10 383]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

("BTR Stage 4 truck cam ")
those sound so nice..!!!

I agree … I'm still a bit of ol skool, it's gotta have some lope to it …

Just in case anybody wants to hear one … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmjNEqe_-U8

Wish I could find a cheap gear drive for one … LoL

[americanmusc1e]

That's a difficult question to answer based on how hard you are going to abuse it and how detail oriented you are.


Personally at minimum I'd do a full set of gaskets, lifters, oil pump, TTY headbolts (if you remove the heads), timing chain and water pump. Also inspect the cam bearings. That's basically what I did to my 5.3 (I also checked the ring gaps. I didn't adjust anything). My 5.3 is about 500 whp at 14psi and so far going strong.

When I build the 6.0 I have sitting on the stand I'll probably do all the above plus gen4 or aftermarket rods (shooting for 700whp), cam bearings, hone and rings (or new pistons).


You can get by with a lot less. A lot of folks actually reuse the TTY headbolts, but unless you are just going extreme budget, why risk it?

[americanmusc1e]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

How technical should we get is a good question...I build engines to my own preferences, using factory tolerances and materials...over 30 LS so far with two in process right now...

One of the often overlooked aspects of any engine build is the oil system as a total piece.

LS engines, due to the design of placing the oil pump at the front of the engine, necessitating an extra long oil pickup tube to bring the oil from back of the engine to the front. To seal this pickup tube to the oil pump, a simple O ring is used...and that is where so many issues can come up....a badly installed pickup O ring can and will cause many low pressure oil problems.

The "dumbell" at the rear of the block inside the oil gallery should be upgraded to a billet unit to ensure all oil is sent through the oil filter.

The oil system bypass cover can be drilled and tapped to accept an oil gauge or turbo lube line fitting if needed.

The oil pump itself should be considered an automatic replacement piece.
There are plenty of videos available that detail the shimming process to ensure the pump is centered around the crank snout.

These oil pumps must be primed before initial rebuild start up.

The timing chain used is a single row that in most street cases is good for over 200,000 miles. Performance applications include a double row chain (needs the pump to be spaced off of the engine by 1/4"). New design timing covers are available with new seals already installed.

Rear crank covers have been redesigned and are available with seals installed. An alignment sleeve is available to center the rear cover correctly over the crank.

Better lifters (closer tolerances internally and larger roller diameters) are readily available.

TTY fasteners should never be reused IMHO...use new factory style or go all out and use ARP studs.

Cams re readily available. It is essential that the cam bearings be replaced and correctly sized upon installation.

New rings and bearings...always...IMHO...

New valve springs always...IMHO...

New water pump always...IMHO...

Make sure the block decks are parallel to the crank centerline.
Cylinder heads should be crack tested...

Hope this helps...

Be safe

And this is the detail oriented guy If I was buying a "rebuilt" engine I'd want to see this kind of detail. The oil pump o-ring is a real thing. I've seen engines die to that one.

[Root2812]

I rebuilt my first engine and it was a 5.3 LS. In my opinion you should buy this book. I know you said you built SBCs before but LS are different in someways.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-L...4265834&sr=8-1

Its got great step by steps with all the torque specs and sequences plus more info and nice color photos. It was a life saver for me.

As for the work to do... I was like you and wanted it done and reliable. I went with a stock rebuilt kit but did end up with new pistons. I also upgraded the oil pump. I did use the LS7 lifters because that's what was recommended. I reused my stock push rods but had the heads rebuilt. Skys the limit on what you do but if your are just doing a mild street motor I say just go back stock but seriously get the book. They'll have it at your local Barns and Noble too so you can check it out before hand if you want.

[truckdude239]

if it is a runner with good oil pressure just reseal rear main valve covers oil block off valley cover with new knock sensors and intake gaskets and let it roll, dont let anyone tell u a 150k motor needs rebuilt cause it not always true my Tahoe had a 5.3 with 369k miles on it when i pulled it now it still ran and had 60psi at idle it just leaked faster then u could dump oil in but the trans went out so i bought a 150k mile combo and resealed and installed them runs great

[kipps]

I'm in the camp of "reseal and run it."

My engine had active fuel management, so I deleted that. This entailed removing the heads, so now all gaskets and seals on the engine are new. As part of a AFM delete kit, the camshaft and lifters are all new.

The engine had sat for a while, so I lightly lapped the valves, to remove any corrosion. I did not remove the windage tray. The cam bearings looked good, so I didn't dig any deeper into the engine. I did clean up some carbon from the piston tops, but otherwise, the engine was very clean at 120k miles.

I've not fired my engine yet, but if the rear seal doesn't leak(I hope I centered it correctly), it should be just fine.

If you're working with a non-AFM engine, don't bother with the cylinder heads. Leave them in place. Replace the oil pan gasket, oil pickup-tube o-ring, rear crank seal(be sure to center it correctly), valve seals(you can get a tool that compresses the spring from above. No need to remove the heads), intake and exhaust gaskets, injector o-rings.