Ride quality, Hoping for a little advice

[EdwardSams]

I’m committed to improving the ride quality of my 70. It’s riding on 285 35 22s (rubber bands). It’s got a hotchkiss spring kit that the PO put on that I’m pretty certain results in a 4/6 drop. On the rear I did the no limit shock relocation and panhard bar kit. It doesn’t have a c notch.

To improve ride and to change the look I’m thinking of getting rid of the 22s and going something in the 18” range. Maybe Ridler wheels. But that would require changing to a 5 lug set up as I’ve had a tough time finding any 6 lug wheels that I like. Right now is 6/5.5 disc up front, drum in rear.

I’m hoping to get a bit of guidance from the group. Goal: improve ride and get off the 22s. What would you do?

Thanks everyone.

[SCOTI]

A 285/35 = 3.9" tall sidewall. That's close to what the 'Big Three' auto manufacturers utilize on modern performance cars. There is definitely worse out there.

Your idea of smaller diameter wheels w/taller sidewalls is a good start.
Aside from the No Limit rear relocation, what's the shock situation front/rear? They play a big part in supporting ride quality.

[Andy4639]

What kind of springs do you have in the truck? When it was lowered did you use springs and if so how did you do it, cut them, heat'em are buy lowered springs?
If you put heat to them are bought new lowered ones try putting some air lift bags inside them like me. My 71 has them in all 4 springs and my truck rides great. No c notch, I have the no limit shock relocator and track bar. My truck never bottoms out now.

Wheels.

I would go 18" are 20" tops.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

What kind of springs do you have in the truck? When it was lowered did you use springs and if so how did you do it, cut them, heat'em are buy lowered springs?
If you put heat to them are bought new lowered ones try putting some air lift bags inside them like me. My 71 has them in all 4 springs and my truck rides great. No c notch, I have the no limit shock relocator and track bar. My truck never bottoms out now.

Wheels.

I would go 18" are 20" tops.

Originally Posted by EdwardSams

It’s got a hotchkiss spring kit that the PO put on that I’m pretty certain results in a 4/6 drop.

2nd sentence of his post.

[EdwardSams]

Thanks guys.

The springs were put in by the previous owner. Their Hotchkis lowering springs. I’ve googled the part number and came up empty. Also called Hotchkis and they weren’t helpful in tracking down what they are (definitely disappointing). Maybe I’ll try that again...

The shocks up front are Belltech for lowered trucks and the rear are Doetsch that came with the No Limit relocation kit.

Feeling it has to be the short sidewall making thing’s especially rough.

[SkidmoreGarage]

Can you provide some more detail about what you don't like about the ride? Does it seem too stiff or does it hit the bumpstops/frame? Is it the front or the rear that is worse? Have you looked to see how much travel you have at ride height? I'd be suspect of PO springs, just because it's an unknown. I posted this on another thread, but thought some of the details may help you.

Traction and comfort are surprisingly similar goals. In both cases you want to keep the wheels controlled and in contact with the road. Unfortunately, payload capacity and comfort are opposing goals. To be able to control a heavy load, you need to be able to resist forces that are in addition to that which the truck normally sees. So for comfort, you want low spring rates (but correct for a 4k lbs truck) and matching shock valving. If the struts are valved for HD load they will resist the impulse to move, which leads to a jarring ride. If the springs are too stiff, you will also experience that it takes a lot of force to move the suspension, and you will feel that as harshness.

To stop the axle from hitting the frame, you will want to utilize modern bumpstops. This will add a progressive ramp rate to the spring when you reach the end of travel.

The third part is that you want to maximize suspension travel. This is why most people recommend drop spindles and lowering blocks to start. These allow for standard length springs and struts. You won't reach a 5" drop with drop blocks, but you may be able to use a 3" spring and 2" blocks.

The final part is, what is best coilovers or regular springs and coils? The answer is that they are the same. Coilovers just move the spring to the strut, and have an adjustable spring platform. However, when you do this, you will increase the demand on the shock mounts. This is why you see aftermarket companies creat mounting kits.

With this info, hopefully you or someone else will be able to ask the right questions when shopping around. If I had to make a suggestion for you:

Front: 73-87 stock arms, sway bar, and disc brakes, 3" drop spindles, new stock springs or stock height but lower spring rate. Use a high quality OE style replacement shock, can be same brand as rear for bonus points.

Rear: 2" drop blocks, 3" drop springs with the softer 200-225lb rate. The NLE shock relocation kit and the longer shocks they recommend. Replace stock rubber bumpstops with bolt on belltech or energy suspension bumpstops.

[EdwardSams]

Thanks Skidmore.

When not hitting bumps of any size, it rides great, but as soon as it hits a bump, again of any size, it feels like the truck is being assaulted. It's definitely worse in the front end - perhaps the shocks or one of the shocks is no good?

In the rear I removed the bump stops and since doing so it's been much better but if I hit a good sized pothole it'll bottom out.

For the front, perhaps I yank the springs that the PO put in and replace with new ones along with drop spindles so I can run longer shocks? And for the rear replace the springs along with drop blocks so I can again run longer shocks?

[SkidmoreGarage]

Sounds like you are on the right track. If the front shock(s) are bad usually that would reducs dampening, resulting in a porpoising or bouncing motion. If it feels like the fronts are crashing over bumps, I would look at the front springs. I would also make sure that you aren't experiencing coil bind. This is where the springs run out of travel as the coils come into contact. You can take the wheel off and jack up one A-arm to watch the suspension articulate (or not). You can also take this time to make sure that you don't have anything that is damaged/binding.

If you are looking at buying things, definitely find out what you have first. I would make sure you don't have drop spindles already and find out if you really have drop springs or heated/cut stock springs. In my opinion, drop spindles and springs are a really cheap place to start. Springs are springs as long as they are made in USA (or the EU) and sold by a reputable company, so don't worry about the brand.

[cj847]

I would definitely guess it is more the tire than anything else. I haven't put rubber band tires on an old truck yet (because I don't like the look). I am basing my statement on test drives of a new car. I can tell a significant difference in harshness on say a Hyundai Sonata with 16" rims vs 18" rims even though it is considered an "upgrade". Sure they handle better on a test track.
I am in the midst of some changes on mine and plan on 17" or 18" max rim dia even though I'm going to run a 30" tire due to 3.73 gearing.

[EdwardSams]

Skidmore: thanks for the tips. I'll pull a tire off and give it a closer look.

CJ847: I think the tires are playing a big part in this drama. I'm hoping to get over to a local custom wheel shop this week to see what they think.

[xs-cash]

Put some sidewall on those rims !

[Big Kev-O]

Speaking from experience, most of the head rattling jolting over bumps is caused by those 22” wheels and 35 series tires. I had trucks riding low on stock wheel and tire combos that cruised fairly smooth....when I finally got big wheels and low profile tires the ride quality dramatically decreased. All of those railroad tracks I cruised over on stock tire now rocked my brain.

Sure new trucks and SUVs come with R22/45s but they were engineered to control the excess weight of the wheel and lack of tire cushion. You can tweek with your springs and shocks all day long but you will never find a combo that make that wheel package rum smooth. Funny fact, when I purchased my 2011 Escalade it came equipped with 22” wheels. Optional upgrade was a 20” , I asked the dealer who would downsize, his response was “ some people want a smoother ride.

My opinion a truck on 22”s may as well lay frame and ride on bags. If you want a smooth riding truck stick with 20” or smaller and no more than a 4/6.

[EdwardSams]

Thanks Big Kev.

Today I dropped by a local custom wheel shop and had a look through what they had on display and in a few catalogs. They tried to sell me on going for 20s (which they have in stock) on a 245 tire, but I didn't go for it. I don't think it's enough of a move that will make enough of a difference in the ride.

18" wheels are my target, so I'm going to obsessively look at pictures to narrow things down a bit.

But first I'm going to get the front suspension a bit more dialed in, so I'll post updates as I get it worked out.

[EdwardSams]

I pulled the wheel off to get a closer look at what’s going on under there now. It looks like the original control arms, ball joints, etc. what Do you all think of what I’ve got here?

I’m thinking about putting in drop spindles and a new disc brake set up while it’s apart. Anything else I should hit while in there?

[SCOTI]

Definitely has original upper BJ's.

[May70]

You should probably start by doing a total service of the front end. If you don't own a grease gun go get one and get to greasing.

If you don't have a front sway bar you should definitely get one and if you do already have one, replace your bushings. They sell kits now with greaseable bushings.

Springs may be worn out also.

[gmc684x4]

Are you going with a taller spring with your drop spindle?

Many use a 1 to 2 inch drop spring with a 2.5 drop spindle for a 3.5 to 4.5 front drop keeping a more comfortable ride with less steering alignment issues

[davischevy]

I would like to see a picture of the front suspension loaded, as it normally would sit. Those bump stops look to me like the truck may be riding on them.

[EdwardSams]

Thanks guys. I'll get out there and take some more pics.

Yes, there is a sway bar. IDK how old the bushings are, so I'll add putting in new ones to the to do list.

If I do the drop spindles, I'll likely do a 2" drop spring so I get a total 4.5" drop.

About the disc brakes that are on there now, the rotors are 1" thick and I have no idea what they are off of. I'm hoping to re-use them with the spindles, but I don't know what year the discs are off of so I'm shooting a bit in the dark on making sure the spindles will work with them, or is there a way to verify what's on there now? Other than the casting #s on the front of the calipers, there aren't any other markings on them.

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by EdwardSams

Thanks guys. I'll get out there and take some more pics.

Yes, there is a sway bar. IDK how old the bushings are, so I'll add putting in new ones to the to do list.

If I do the drop spindles, I'll likely do a 2" drop spring so I get a total 4.5" drop.

About the disc brakes that are on there now, the rotors are 1" thick and I have no idea what they are off of. I'm hoping to re-use them with the spindles, but I don't know what year the discs are off of so I'm shooting a bit in the dark on making sure the spindles will work with them, or is there a way to verify what's on there now? Other than the casting #s on the front of the calipers, there aren't any other markings on them.

If you do a 2" drop spring in addition to 2" dropped spindle, that will put you on the bump stop for sure. Be prepared for lot more work.

If you do a 4.5" static drop, the ride will only get worse..

[EdwardSams]

Here is a picture with the truck on ground. The bumpstop is an inch from hitting, and you can see where it has been hitting. An inch doesn’t leave much room...

I measured the shock with and without load as well. With load - 11", without load - 13".

[EdwardSams]

What do you all think of this plan, All from performance online

2.5 drop spindles
New tubular upper and lower control arms w 2” drop spring
Appropriate shocks
New sway bar designed to work with the above
And I may do front shock relocation bracket to allow for even more shock travel

This will do a few things but most importantly improve the ride.

And when this is all done I’m going to buy new wheels and tires. Likely 17 or 18” with much more sidewall than currently exists.

[May70]

I had to call POL and ask them if they were going to ship my parts after about a month after they charged me for them.

Parts were good but coating was worthless.

I believe POL does not have a very good return policy so make certain you know what you need and it’s correct.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by EdwardSams

What do you all think of this plan, All from performance online

2.5 drop spindles
New tubular upper and lower control arms w 2” drop spring
Appropriate shocks
New sway bar designed to work with the above
And I may do front shock relocation bracket to allow for even more shock travel

This will do a few things but most importantly improve the ride.

And when this is all done I’m going to buy new wheels and tires. Likely 17 or 18” with much more sidewall than currently exists.

Honestly.... The tubular arms are just bling. They aren't going to impact ride quality vs a 67-72 set-up. Original sway bars work just fine w/the original style arms as well. So the tubular arms & corresponding sway bar aren't needed for changing ride quality.

Spindles & a 2" spring will work fine w/the arms you already have. The shorter the coil spring, the more impact there will be on travel & most likely ride quality is the first to suffer. Bump-stops making contact during 'normal' driving kills ride quality.

If you don't know what spring is in there, that's where I would start. The spindles, springs, & different size wheels/tires would be where I spent my money.

The bling parts can be added after.

[SkidmoreGarage]

SCOTI's got it covered, and I would add that you should know what you have before ordering ball joints and spindles. The reason I say this is that I don't recognize your brakes (may just be the photos/me), and the ball joints/spindles/rotors/calipers/wheel bearings have to be compatible. It is a big headache if none of your stuff works together. I don't want to add any confusion but if they are GM car brakes, they may have GM car spindles. There should be a stamped part number. Also, your sway bar bushings appear to be blue, which would be aftermarket.

I see the benefit of going to tubular arms is to allow for a geometry "correction" and a coilover, which you aren't looking for either. I'd put that money in some great tires like some continental extreme contact sports.