47-59 The Future of Our Trucks

[MiraclePieCo]

As America changes before our eyes, it will profoundly affect our trucking hobby. Our current Presidential Administration has committed to the Green New Deal. Manufacturers like Ford and GM have pledged to end all gas-powered vehicle production in just over 8 years. Some states such as California are banning all gasoline-powered vehicle sales. The upshot is, that truck you've invested years of time and maybe tens of thousands of dollars in could become virtually worthless.

So what will you do if this transpires? Sell out, hoping to get a dime on the dollar? Horde gas like a Mad Max Road Warrior? Hope and pray that SEMA is able to convince legislatures to allow us to keep our trucks, and hope you can find gasoline somewhere in a 100-mile radius? Yank out that beautiful new turbocharged LS motor in which you've invested thousands, and install an all-electric drive train? Or perhaps the few remaining gasoline-powered vehicles will become sought-after and extremely valuable?

My opinion of EVs is that they are false ecology. Electricity still must be generated somewhere, and whether coal, nuclear, wind, solar, or hydroelectric, it all has its environmental consequences. EVs just transfer the pollution somewhere else (see photo below).

Sorry Moderators if this appears political, but in fact it is a very real and imminent threat facing each one of us on this forum. We can't ignore it much longer.

[mr48chev]

I guess truck will have to move to Texas and Oklahoma. Or use the power of the ballot and vote the fools who want to totally eliminate gas powered vehicles out of office and send them packing. Those same ones in Washington and Oregon want to rip out the Hydro Electric dams on the Snake. That means getting rid of the clean energy that they plan on using to power their electric cars.

I guess we can convert our trucks to run on grain alcohol and grow our own fuel.


There are some guys around the country working at converting Older rigs to electric now, The more technology that comes out on the new electric rigs the more that get seen as viable on older rigs. No motor sounds but just as guys are now swapping in LS engines the next group will be pulling complete electric drivetrains and battery packs out of donor rigs and building chassis to work with them in older rigs.

[nvrdone]

i think EV's have a place in our future including powering our classic trucks. But as miracle says, the electricity has to come from some where. and no one seems to want to or can tell us what the upfront cost of providing that electricity is.
I just read a study by Univ of Michigan that showed that for the next 8 - 15 years gas powered vehicles will be less expensive and more enviromentally friendly.
But I wonder about the accuracy of their study.

[G&R's57GMC]

I have two electric vehicles in my garage now , they run on solar power from my roof and so does the house .
Ok details , I added 24 panels with micro inverters back in 2008 they provide enough energy to wipe out my electric bill in the spring and fall and reduce it during the winter . The summer on the other hand I get a bill but it’s reduced from what it would be without solar , after all I’m running 2 a/c units all summer .
In 2016 I added a Kia Soul EV for local driving and charged it after every trip with the 110 volt charger it came with .It has a 100 mile . The result no noticeable increase in my bill .

In 2020 I added a Kia Nero EV I charge it when it gets down to 200 miles remaining with the 110 volt charger it came with . It has a range of 296 miles. Again no noticeable increase in my bill . So far it hasn’t left town , but one of these days it will .

Meanwhile my Tundra only goes out when pulling my 25’ Airstream .

The phase out of gas powered vehicles will probably happen around 2050 in the meantime fuel prices will rise over time .

So for the hobby it will mean you’ll pay more to run your toy the farther out in time . Or you may convert to electric , think how little you actually travel with it . Heck even if gas cost $ 20 per gallon you’d still cruise with it .

[UmmYeahOk]

Can’t hoard gas. It goes bad after a while. There are plenty of lobbyists, many willing to fight for the hobby, that will keep gas around. You just may have to travel farther for it. That’s something I already do whenever I want high octane that is ethanol free. As the market for EVs grows, the need for gas will lessen, and gas stations will eventually go out of business, with only a few here and there, one per town.

Originally Posted by nvrdone

i think EV's have a place in our future including powering our classic trucks.

I couldn’t agree more. Love it or hate it, it is the future of hotrodding.

https://youtu.be/29SGGo4H2Yg

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I guess truck will have to move to Texas and Oklahoma.

There are some guys around the country working at converting Older rigs to electric now, The more technology that comes out on the new electric rigs the more that get seen as viable on older rigs. No motor sounds but just as guys are now swapping in LS engines the next group will be pulling complete electric drivetrains and battery packs out of donor rigs and building chassis to work with them in older rigs.

https://youtu.be/in0b0EQPx18

Skip a minute ahead for the sound. You may not be able to hear it a mile away, but it still sounds pretty cool. Oh, and this truck is in TX.

Originally Posted by G&R's57GMC

I have two electric vehicles in my garage now , they run on solar power from my roof and so does the house .
Ok details , I added 24 panels with micro inverters back in 2008 they provide enough energy to wipe out my electric bill in the spring and fall and reduce it during the winter . The summer on the other hand I get a bill but it’s reduced from what it would be without solar , after all I’m running 2 a/c units all summer .
In 2016 I added a Kia Soul EV for local driving and charged it after every trip with the 110 volt charger it came with .It has a 100 mile . The result no noticeable increase in my bill .

In 2020 I added a Kia Nero EV I charge it when it gets down to 200 miles remaining with the 110 volt charger it came with . It has a range of 296 miles. Again no noticeable increase in my bill . So far it hasn’t left town , but one of these days it will .

Meanwhile my Tundra only goes out when pulling my 25’ Airstream .

The phase out of gas powered vehicles will probably happen around 2050 in the meantime fuel prices will rise over time .

So for the hobby it will mean you’ll pay more to run your toy the farther out in time . Or you may convert to electric , think how little you actually travel with it . Heck even if gas cost $ 20 per gallon you’d still cruise with it .

We traded in our 2017 Chevy Volt on a 2015 Tesla Model S, and loved both. We too have a ton of solar panels. Maybe some power grids are powered by coal, but our energy company mostly just buys power from solar, wind, and natural gas.

We also have a 2014 RAV4 EV, which is actually also Tesla powered. It was purchased for this very reason. We’re not a fan of modern SUVs, but all the batteries and power train alone were worth more than the perfectly fine working vehicle. It is destined to be parted out, despite its condition and rarity, and swapped into 57 Belair 4 door shell.

[Divine 59]

@Ummyeahok- Current Texas electric grid gets 23% of power from renewable energy. Do you realize natural gas is lumped in with all other "fossil fuels"? Burning natural gas still counts against the "carbon footprint".

I do not understand the current faulty logic to justify the purchase of an EV. Most electric grids still get the majority of their fuel to generate electricity from carbon based sources. Seems like a shell game. Moving carbon use from gasoline (a carbon based fuel) to electricity (still a majority carbon based power source).

No more for me on this topic. Too close to a political one.

Malice towards none.

[burnin oil]

I was thinking about this the other day. I don't mind a functional electric vehicle but I don't view the current ones as overly functional. When you live in an area where a round trip is easily over 4 hours not going over the most efficient terrain it makes the current crop of electrics seem pretty dismal and we have not discussed batteries loosing capacity either. I figure in the next couple of years we will see these regs dropping as it's figures out by most that the target is unobtainable. The electric grid can't hold and supply that many electric cars and having worked on power lines I don't see the infrastructure catching up that fast. Even using solar technologies won't do well as most are manufactured in China as is the elements for battery storage and the purposed electric vehicles. Honestly the auto manufacturers won't be able to make the target as electronics and batteries are needed for the fleet of new cars at the same time as the energy sector needs them. Now let's factor in the global supply chain issues and all I can see is a roll back in full implementation. Another aspect that isn't discussed is the need for plastics which predominatly come from oil. Globally we will have to keep drilling for quite some time to support those needs and gasoline will stay around as a by product of the plastic production. We are locked into oil dependency for a long time in one form or another until viable solutions are found and able to meet plastics needs for a good part of the earths population. Short of the world collapsing into Mad Max I think that gas is here to stay through our lifetimes and that the politics trying to remove it in our country will essentially shrink. People will make some consessions for their beliefs but most are not willing to become self reliant and live off the land because they can't afford to live in society. Medium term I honestly think that places like the west coast will try and go ultra green and that you will just see an exodus of people until the coast has to change its political views. I think a whole lot of things will change as they try and get rid of gas motors at all levels and this will be a bumpy ride. Hopefully I skirted the politics of the issues and stayed with facts and opinions on this.


On a related topic I still can't figure out why we haven't gone to diesel electric like a locomotive in cars. My gas Honda generator runs 4 hours on a gallon of gas. Seems to me that 150mpg would be pretty obtainable and not need the battery storage capacity.

[57tailgater]

Like this?

[burnin oil]

Pretty much. I think I would put one of the trailer hitch extenders on the back of the car and let it drag its on generator though. Sadly that pic probably has alot of truth to it.

[mr48chev]

I rather figure that there is going to be a break over point when enough commuter and city driven rigs go to electric that there will be enough gas left for fun rigs. I wouldn't doubt that there are a good number of members who have a Hybrid or all electric commuter car to go to work and back now. That leaves the go to work gas for the fun rig for doing fun things.

Still it should be local delivery and service fleets in major cities that should go to electric. Those vans that run all over town all day long delivering all sorts of products and making service calls. The rig the manufactures aren't building yet because they aren't flashy enough.

[UmmYeahOk]

Originally Posted by Divine 59

@Ummyeahok- Current Texas electric grid gets 23% of power from renewable energy. Do you realize natural gas is lumped in with all other "fossil fuels"? Burning natural gas still counts against the "carbon footprint".

I do not understand the current faulty logic to justify the purchase of an EV. Most electric grids still get the majority of their fuel to generate electricity from carbon based sources. Seems like a shell game. Moving carbon use from gasoline (a carbon based fuel) to electricity (still a majority carbon based power source).

This is from two years ago, so I’m sure that data has changed since then. The company I use only buys some of its electricity from ERCOT. ...which probably explains why we weren’t completely blacked out last February. Also, solar doesn’t include people who have panels on their home, unless ERCOT themselves are paying for them to farm it.

One of the big political things going on right now is the need to invest in our nation’s infrastructure. Instead of trying to prop up the already failing coal industry, we need to invest in renewable energy. Right now, there is mass migration to areas like Texas. Even without an arctic snow storm, our current grid will not be able to handle all the people moving here, as the number of people relocating here keeps exploding every year. Now throw in the need to charge the EVs of the people already living here. This is why it’s so important that EV owners that have the means, like the ones in this thread, offset their usage with solar of their own. Its no different than the early days of automobiles where early adopters of ICE needed a place that would sell them that gas. There weren’t stations on every street corner. And if there’s not enough gas to fuel all the cars, will, I wasn’t alive in the 70s, but I think I know a little about how that went. I’m sure it probably was a little like that.

Originally Posted by burnin oil

I was thinking about this the other day. I don't mind a functional electric vehicle but I don't view the current ones as overly functional. When you live in an area where a round trip is easily over 4 hours not going over the most efficient terrain it makes the current crop of electrics seem pretty dismal and we have not discussed batteries loosing capacity either. I figure in the next couple of years we will see these regs dropping as it's figures out by most that the target is unobtainable. The electric grid can't hold and supply that many electric cars and having worked on power lines I don't see the infrastructure catching up that fast. Even using solar technologies won't do well as most are manufactured in China as is the elements for battery storage and the purposed electric vehicles. Honestly the auto manufacturers won't be able to make the target as electronics and batteries are needed for the fleet of new cars at the same time as the energy sector needs them. Now let's factor in the global supply chain issues and all I can see is a roll back in full implementation. Another aspect that isn't discussed is the need for plastics which predominatly come from oil. Globally we will have to keep drilling for quite some time to support those needs and gasoline will stay around as a by product of the plastic production. We are locked into oil dependency for a long time in one form or another until viable solutions are found and able to meet plastics needs for a good part of the earths population. Short of the world collapsing into Mad Max I think that gas is here to stay through our lifetimes and that the politics trying to remove it in our country will essentially shrink. People will make some consessions for their beliefs but most are not willing to become self reliant and live off the land because they can't afford to live in society. Medium term I honestly think that places like the west coast will try and go ultra green and that you will just see an exodus of people until the coast has to change its political views. I think a whole lot of things will change as they try and get rid of gas motors at all levels and this will be a bumpy ride. Hopefully I skirted the politics of the issues and stayed with facts and opinions on this.

On a related topic I still can't figure out why we haven't gone to diesel electric like a locomotive in cars. My gas Honda generator runs 4 hours on a gallon of gas. Seems to me that 150mpg would be pretty obtainable and not need the battery storage capacity.

Good point on the continuing need for plastics. Oil will remain a necessity. Supply will just need to balance with demand. As far as the supply chain for everything else, trying to avoid the politics, I do wanna bring up “MAGA.” By this, I mean building battery factories HERE, solar panel factories HERE, all that stuff. Lower middle class wages for American factory workers who did not need to get a 4 year college degree just so they can flip burgers. Businesses need federal and state incentives to create and keep these jobs local. We do not need to be dependent on foreign technology just so we aren’t dependent on foreign oil.

As far as needing to commute 4 hours round trip. That’s not normal. People like you don’t need and can’t use an EV. These are vehicles for city dwellers (once charging at home or work becomes a possibility) and suburbanites who can charge at home while they sleep just like it were their cell phone. Imagine leaving home every day with a full tank, and not even worry about having to refill on your commute to or from. That’s what it is like owning an EV.

Right now companies like Tesla are trying to create high mileage vehicles like semi trucks. It is interesting to see how successful they can become because that will be the true test of practicality. Right now, I can take a cross country trip, but with the current infrastructure, I will have to stay on major highways, and take 30-60 minute breaks, which isn’t as much longer as an ICE if you consider how long a family takes with their bathroom pit stops and dining.

Originally Posted by 57tailgater

Like this?

Because no ICE vehicle has ever been caught running out of gas. That’s essentially what this is. It’s someone being rescued, who did not pay attention to their gauges. Happens more often to ICE vehicles. It’s like whenever an EV catches fire. It’s super rare, but the pictures and headlines are everywhere. Not really news worthy when an ICE catches fire or runs out of gas. ...or explodes. It’s just something that happens.

As for battery capacity over time. Modern EVs are setup so they don’t charge at full capacity, or can be drained completely. Much like modern ICEs, when your fuel gas is at empty, and there is a stupid warning light, and a chime, because somehow you’ve ignore the gauge completely and therefore need these things... ...you can still go a few more miles before becoming completely stranded.

You have a cell phone, or even something like an iPod that you allow to drain until it’s dead. Eventually that battery is going to last 30 minutes. We have a 2015 and 2014 EV. So 7-6yo batteries. They don’t seem to have a shorter capacity. The belief is that after a decade they lose 10%. That means if your vehicle gets 200 miles, after a decade, that’s 180 miles. How far can your 20th century classics go in a single tank?

Now then, let’s say you need to replace a battery cell. They can be refurbished, and older batteries can be recycled. There are still important resources in these batteries, like lithium, that need to be reclaimed and reused. That’s a growing market that should be looked into, and for those companies wishing to go public, seem like a good investment.

[burnin oil]

Lots of good points. For the record I don't commute 2 hours each way. Things like going to a specialist doctor or to relate to trucks, the actual spring company. Going to a real sized town is an hour.

I am surprised that you don't see a battery life deteriation on your EVs. Most people I knew with them did. Every rechargeable battery I have been around did. That's cell phones, com gear, hand toils and even forklifts. Heck my laptop has a dieing battery in it.

Staying out of politics one of the reasons production left was the EPA. Either red tape or non availability to build new plants drive alot of that out of country. It wasn't all bean counters. I can support both sides of that coin though.

[UmmYeahOk]

Originally Posted by burnin oil

I am surprised that you don't see a battery life deteriation on your EVs. Most people I knew with them did. Every rechargeable battery I have been around did. That's cell phones, com gear, hand toils and even forklifts. Heck my laptop has a dieing battery in it.

Our Tesla comes with a lifetime of supercharging. We have never used this service, ever. Even when my husband sat in a spot for several minutes. It would be nice to know that if works before attempting something long range. But the belief is that speed charging hurts the batteries, decreasing their lifespan. They get really really hot, and anyone who’s left anything with batteries in it up in a attic after a Texas summer knows that those batteries are most likely dead, or about to be.

Did the people you know ever supercharged? Or drive to the limit? There is a range setting that you can adjust. For example, if I am planning a trip, I can set it to charge at a higher capacity, get about 20-50 more miles by telling it to fully charge. I wonder how high these people charged. Range anxiety is real, and my husband was concerned because when he arrived home, he could only go 65 miles. The worst I’ve had it, was arriving home at 48 miles. I don’t know how low these people are draining their batteries. I also don’t know if my gauge lies, and that 48 becomes 8 after a mile or two. I once had an iPhone who would be at full charge, 30 minutes half, then shut down completely due to having a dead battery. So that gauge never went below the halfway mark back when I had this issue.

But pretty much most things that are rechargeable are abused. Power tools people often use till dead. Phones, smart watches, portable media devices, etc. I started reusing an old 90s Walkman about a year ago. I have been using rechargeable AA batteries. Those batteries are needed for radio presets and the clock. The clock drains those batteries because when I am not playing music, it still uses the clock. The Tesla has several features that will turn off if you end up with 20 miles of battery left. Would stink to get stranded or ruin your battery because you wanted to watch Netflix on your vehicles screen, or that Whoopie cushion (emissions) feature.
Posted via Mobile Device

[1project2many]

I can say that I've tried moving toward electric. Solar quotes are around $8,000 - $10,000 with savings on electric bills bordering on $60/mo. Can't sell the electricity but the "property" gets a credit in case we use more electricity than we generate. So... incentive is to build minimal solar to maximize return? Can't really afford battery cars yet as my average vehicle purchase price is $3000 or below. Yep... I'm a brokeass. Most of my $$ goes toward paying for the home and feeding / clothing my kids. But I work hard and I've spent much time in the underground world of vehicles. I've done WVO, WMO, biodiesel production, and even created fuel from pyrolysis. Tried moving toward a homemade electric vehicle but the cost for controllers and motors was too much at the time. It would only have worked if I could become a parasite and connected to the employer's outlets before the trip home. It's not truly a sustainable model.

Now I see a push for electrification of bus fleets. It's not a bad strategy. HC powered buses get 30% lower fuel efficiency in town than on the road ime. And the buses provide a return by supplying additional power when they are plugged in but out of service. Temporary method to overcome some of the weaknesses in the power delivery infrastructure?

Have to think carefully about the argument that a portable HC burner is as efficient as a stationary burner. The ICE can be made to be very efficient in a smaller rpm range but loses efficiency as it needs to cover a greater rpm range. Strategies to improve CAFE these days include limiting driver control and keeping the engine within its efficiency range as often as possible. But ICE has to work in hot, cold, rain, up and down hill... it's really a bunch to ask. Stationary power source? Make it as efficient as possible and let it run continuously. Anyone burn oil for heat? Look at the efficiency rating of the burner... 97-99%. Gasoline fueled vehicle ICE? 50% is in-furking-credible. Diesel fueled vehicles? 50% is still noteworthy.

The idea of diesel electric or hybrid or super efficient powerplant isn't new. What's new is the ability to adjust to so many variables. Computer controls can process much more information than most people and can respond much faster. People tend to generalize, to simplify, to find averages. The computer is the tool to make changes based on half degree increments, on fractions of a percent change in efficiency and load. And the computer monitors and responds to far more variables than a human wants to deal with. And I think hotrodders as a group are slowly acknowledging this by favoring computer controlled engine swaps over carburetors.

I'm sure I'll swap my truck to electric if that's the only way to drive it. I might hold out and try to find ways to say "Nope." as long as I can afford to. But to park it and never drive it because the fuel is made of unobtanium? That's never been my way.

Now, will I become a symbol of waste, of "old time thinking," of a group that people love to hate because I am willing to drive it? Pretty sure I'm already there for some.

[1project2many]

Our Tesla comes with a lifetime of supercharging. We have never used this service, ever. Even when my husband sat in a spot for several minutes. It would be nice to know that if works before attempting something long range. But the belief is that speed charging hurts the batteries, decreasing their lifespan. They get really really hot, and anyone who’s left anything with batteries in it up in a attic after a Texas summer knows that those batteries are most likely dead, or about to be.

I believe Tesloop has experience with excessive Supercharging?
https://insideevs.com/news/345589/te...y-degradation/

[_Ogre]

if i were able, i'd look forward to building an EV truk, quick and simple
really not much to fix on those things

my current EV will do burnouts and does donuts

https://youtu.be/a8uLTjj1qNQ

https://youtu.be/a8uLTjj1qNQ

[MiraclePieCo]

Perhaps I asked this question on the wrong forum. One thing in common with those claiming to have EVs, Teslas, and home solar systems is MONEY. It takes a ton of money to convert everything you own to electric. I live completely on Social Security. I don't have the income to convert my home to solar, buy a new electric car, electric lawnmower, electric weedeater, electric motorcycle, and convert the hot rod into which I've invested my life savings into an electric drive train. It's nice that many of you do, but this is another example of government regulations hitting the poor hardest.

[G&R's57GMC]

Originally Posted by MiraclePieCo

Perhaps I asked this question on the wrong forum. One thing in common with those claiming to have EVs, Teslas, and home solar systems is MONEY. It takes a ton of money to convert everything you own to electric. I live completely on Social Security. I don't have the income to convert my home to solar, buy a new electric car, electric lawnmower, electric weedeater, electric motorcycle, and convert the hot rod into which I've invested my life savings into an electric drive train. It's nice that many of you do, but this is another example of government regulations hitting the poor hardest.

Don’t fret about it , the goal is to stop the sale of new petroleum powered vehicles by 2035 . Those will most likely still be on the road by 2050 unless petroleum gets so expensive as time goes on .

As for your lawn equipment as it wears out you’ll replace them one at a time just like anything else , the only difference is they will be electric .

Now ask yourself ‘Will I be on the right side of the dirt by 2050 and will I still have enough money to live that long ?’

If I live that long I would be 102 !
But everyone has an expiration date and we don’t know when that is .

[mick53]

I don't see gas vehicles going away anytime soon. Just because they quit making them they will still be allowed to run on the roads. Grandfather rights. You can still run your steam powered car on the road. Gas may get far cheaper because of the lack of demand. It's not going to be a problem in my lifetime so there's that.

[blue 72 gmc 4x4]

Originally Posted by mick53

I don't see gas vehicles going away anytime soon. Just because they quit making them they will still be allowed to run on the roads. Grandfather rights. You can still run your steam powered car on the road. Gas may get far cheaper because of the lack of demand. It's not going to be a problem in my lifetime so there's that.

At least we have options, "Cruising down the road in your 1899 steam powered wagon burning COAL!"

[1project2many]

There used to be a gent in this area that cruised down the road in his 1989-ish S10 steamer. I believe the powertrain was from a WWII vintage vehicle. Very quiet and clean.

[Divine 59]

https://www.newsweek.com/ford-turned...k-sema-1645200

So it is starting.......

Current administration is talking about taking a pipeline from Canada to Michigan out of service. Not being political just wondering how that helps the many people that depend on the oil products no longer delivered by the pipeline.

[Warrens69GMC]

The Impending Big Auto/Oil Implosion Explained |...

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by mick53

It's not going to be a problem in my lifetime so there's that.

pretty much describes why we have global warming

[Warrens69GMC]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

pretty much describes why we have global warming

Based on the science, its cyclical. We are where we are supposed to be.