55.2-59 Carrier shims

[popeyestruck]

Taking apart the carrier and marking and bagging everything left and right. There isnt a shim on either side. Shouldnt there be a shim? No problems with rear end before disassemble just putting in different gears. Every video and instruction says to save the shim and when I put it back together use that as a starting point for runout. Edit for one more question. Any easy way to get these bearings and races off?

[mr48chev]

Instead of shims it has the threaded pieces on the sides of the bearings that move the carrier back and forth. There is a special sling shot looking tool with a couple of pins sticking out that is made to turn them. You loosen th caps and loosen one and tighten the other to move the carrier.

This is a drop out out of a 64 car but the concept is the same.

I is the later spicer rear ends with the third member as part of the housiing the use shims.

[popeyestruck]

Yes thats exactly what I have. Thanks

[dsraven]

make sure to mark the bearing caps for side and top. they are installed and then machined so they only make a perfect round hole if aligned the same way they were before you took it apart.
there will likely be shims behind the pinion bearing cup and/or cone to set the depth of the pinion and possibly shims or a crush sleeve between the two pinion bearings. I haven't had that one apart in awhile so can't remember. too many other diffs in between. if replacing bearings remove the old ones carefully and you can likely re-use the shims and then check the tooth contact pattern after to make sure it is still good. before you start you may want to check the runout on the carrier ring gear flange, no use to spend money on something that may be out of limits.
if doing a bearing and seal job, check for a price on a kit. sometimes the kit, including shim packs, tooth contact ink, bearings and seals, is pretty decently priced.

[popeyestruck]

I bought the kit from yukon gear that includes shims , crush sleeves , etc. Let me ask this does it either use crush sleeves or shims ? Not Both?

[popeyestruck]

This is what came with the kit. I also bought the pinion and ring gear and axel bearings. The 2 tubes ,white and red, is this like dykem for checking contact on the gears? or is this like green locktite for bearings?

[dsraven]

there is likely a shim behind your pinion behind your pinion bearing to set the depth of the pinion and achieve correct tooth contact. thene there will be a crush sleeve between the pinion bearings to get the pinion bearing preload correct. this is measured using a rolling resistance not a particular torque.
the tubes will likely be one for tooth contact pattern check-usually comes with a small brush to apply- and one is likely loctite.
here is a link for a chevy manual from back in the day. it shows a similar drop out unit being disassembled, cleaned, checked and re-bearinged. good to read through before tackling yours, just so you have a reference. there is also one for a posi unit in case.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...op06/index.htm

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...30smindex.html

the old car manuals project has lots of info for different years of chevies. some are not complete manuals but the surrounding years usually make up the difference.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...esto/index.htm

[dsraven]

your truck is a "57, correct? do you have the assembly manual for it? very useful for finding how things were put together at the factory. like if you need to know where the spot welds are or what to expect to find behind any given panel etc. it can be downloaded for free at the tri5 site. google 55-59 chevrolet truck factory assembly manual and pick the trifive site.

[popeyestruck]

Its a 59 . I have the shop manual. Got everything apart except for the bearing on the pinion shaft and the 2 races in the housing. Working on that now

[dsraven]

Pinion bearing-I usually pull the cage and rollers off, heat a single spot on the bearing and make a dent in it with the rounded part of a ball pain hammer, maybe hold that hammer head on the spot and strike it with another hammer so you dont miss.... then make another dent opposite to that one. Then the bearing usually cones off easier. The dent expands the bearing in those spots, sometimes it cracks and falls off. Be careful with the shims behind the bearing.
Use a soft punch, like brass, to work on the bearings in the housing.

[dsraven]

a set up like this works well and some parts stores rent them cheap or free.

https://www.begaspecialtools.com/en/...x-reach-60-mm/

[popeyestruck]

I Macgyvered them all off. Tomorrow clean everything and start putting everything back together. Thanks for you help

[dsraven]

for installing the new pinion shaft bearings I usually run some emery cloth over the shaft to clean it up shiny, then put that shaft in the freezer to get it nice and cold-and small. then the bearing gets heated up slightly, sometimes in a frying pan of oil to a couple hundred degrees, then I get all ready to assemble with the shim pack, a brass punch, hammer, a tube that fits over the pinion shaft that I can use to drive the bearing with, a block of wood for the pinion shaft to sit on when driving the new bearing on, the bearing should be readily handy, then I grab the pinion out of the freezer and drop the shim pack and the hot oily bearing onto the pinion. sometimes it falls right onto the spot it needs to be and I just have to give it a tap to make sure it's all the way home. sometimes it needs a bit of help-depending on how much time it takes to get things set up. things warm up and cool off quickly but if you manage to get right on it quickly this method works well-if you don't have a press.
when done it goes without saying that the parts should be re-cleaned and oiled/greased before assembly and checking the tooth contact. I usually assemble with the old crush sleeve to check contact pattern and this is where you will appreciate the pinion shaft being all shiny and smooth, the new small end bearing usually needs to go on and off a few times so if it is tight on the shaft it can be bothersome, then if it is right I assemble with the new parts and seal.check the seal surface on the yoke as well, in case it needs a speedi sleeve or a new yoke. its hard to hold the pinion and crank up the yoke nut when doing the crush sleeve so I made a bar that bolts onto the yoke and can bear down on the bench, floor, whatever- I try to do this part in the vehicle because then the axle becomes your holder-some guys use a big pipe wrench on the yoke to hold it and I have done that as well. just make sure to use a good sized sturdy pipe wrench. I have axle dirt embedded in my cheek below the eye from a pipe wrench that broke when doing this under a 1 ton. it caused me to go face to face with the axle housing. now I have that bar and a 3/4" drive socket set and snipe tool. be careful and check as you go when doing the crush sleeve as there is no making that longer once it has been crushed to much and becomes too tight. too tight means it comes apart to install a new crush sleeve and a new seal because the seal needs to come out to get the crush sleeve out. too tight will make a lot of heat on the bearings and can make all that work for nothing if it causes a failure. I always overfill the axle with oil, tip the vehicle one way and the other slightly to ensure oil has made it down the axle tubes, then come back later and drain out the excess. a buddy didn't take the time to let the oil settle out and it cost him an axle due to a dry axle bearing. they don't go far without oil. that is why I always grease the axle bearings before installing the axle.
just some pointers. have you ever done an axle rebuild before? got tools for this sport of thing?

[Accelo]

Typically their is no room for the bearing splitters to grasp the bearing on differentials.
For that reason the OEM and others make special tools to remove the bearings. They can be expensive and difficult to find.

The only reason you will need to remove the pinion bearing is so you can measure the OEM shim thickness. It is a good starting point for your replacement gears.

Removing the cage and rollers, from the bearing race, so you can heat the bearing race directly with the torch, like dsraven mentioned, is a good method. Carrier should be in a vise and it's easier with two people. One with a hammer and punch, to knock it off, and the other heating with a torch. Oxy-Act works better because it can heat fast enough to create a larger heat differential which is why it works. The faster you work the better the heat differential and the better the chance you can remove the bearing.
Did you confirm the new gear ratio is compatible with your carrier?

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by dsraven

for installing the new pinion shaft bearings I usually run some emery cloth over the shaft to clean it up shiny, then put that shaft in the freezer to get it nice and cold-and small. then the bearing gets heated up slightly, sometimes in a frying pan of oil to a couple hundred degrees, then I get all ready to assemble with the shim pack, a brass punch, hammer, a tube that fits over the pinion shaft that I can use to drive the bearing with, a block of wood for the pinion shaft to sit on when driving the new bearing on, the bearing should be readily handy, then I grab the pinion out of the freezer and drop the shim pack and the hot oily bearing onto the pinion. sometimes it falls right onto the spot it needs to be and I just have to give it a tap to make sure it's all the way home. sometimes it needs a bit of help-depending on how much time it takes to get things set up. things warm up and cool off quickly but if you manage to get right on it quickly this method works well-if you don't have a press.
when done it goes without saying that the parts should be re-cleaned and oiled/greased before assembly and checking the tooth contact. I usually assemble with the old crush sleeve to check contact pattern and this is where you will appreciate the pinion shaft being all shiny and smooth, the new small end bearing usually needs to go on and off a few times so if it is tight on the shaft it can be bothersome, then if it is right I assemble with the new parts and seal.check the seal surface on the yoke as well, in case it needs a speedi sleeve or a new yoke. its hard to hold the pinion and crank up the yoke nut when doing the crush sleeve so I made a bar that bolts onto the yoke and can bear down on the bench, floor, whatever- I try to do this part in the vehicle because then the axle becomes your holder-some guys use a big pipe wrench on the yoke to hold it and I have done that as well. just make sure to use a good sized sturdy pipe wrench. I have axle dirt embedded in my cheek below the eye from a pipe wrench that broke when doing this under a 1 ton. it caused me to go face to face with the axle housing. now I have that bar and a 3/4" drive socket set and snipe tool. be careful and check as you go when doing the crush sleeve as there is no making that longer once it has been crushed to much and becomes too tight. too tight means it comes apart to install a new crush sleeve and a new seal because the seal needs to come out to get the crush sleeve out. too tight will make a lot of heat on the bearings and can make all that work for nothing if it causes a failure. I always overfill the axle with oil, tip the vehicle one way and the other slightly to ensure oil has made it down the axle tubes, then come back later and drain out the excess. a buddy didn't take the time to let the oil settle out and it cost him an axle due to a dry axle bearing. they don't go far without oil. that is why I always grease the axle bearings before installing the axle.
just some pointers. have you ever done an axle rebuild before? got tools for this sport of thing?

Lots of good info thanks. This is my first axel rebuild so I'm going slow. I'm sure I'll have more questions. I've been using a tech article from stovebolt as a guide but its for a 1950 truck so its just a guide.

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by Accelo

Typically their is no room for the bearing splitters to grasp the bearing on differentials.
For that reason the OEM and others make special tools to remove the bearings. They can be expensive and difficult to find.

The only reason you will need to remove the pinion bearing is so you can measure the OEM shim thickness. It is a good starting point for your replacement gears.

Removing the cage and rollers, from the bearing race, so you can heat the bearing race directly with the torch, like dsraven mentioned, is a good method. Carrier should be in a vise and it's easier with two people. One with a hammer and punch, to knock it off, and the other heating with a torch. Oxy-Act works better because it can heat fast enough to create a larger heat differential which is why it works. The faster you work the better the heat differential and the better the chance you can remove the bearing.
Did you confirm the new gear ratio is compatible with your carrier?

Yes its a direct replacement according to yukon

[Accelo]

Typical stumbling blocks.

1. Installing the bearings, especially without access to a press.
   
   Sometimes the bearings actually go below the carrier stick out. A bugger to figure out what to do then.
   
   
2. Setting the pinion bearing preload.
   
   Specifically without a dial torque wrench that reads in inch pounds. Typically the upper most scale is 30 to 50 inch pounds or 2 to 4 ft pounds.
   Often one is temped to use a impact wrench. It just doesn't work well and is almost a guarantee you will over-tighten the spindle nut.
   When setting the preload the spindle nut can require up to 600 ft pounds to crush the sleeve. I use an extended breaker bar with a 15" extension, as required. When it is close to having the correct preload barely moving the nut will be all you want to do between measurements as the preload change is not linear.

The threaded caps, on the carrier bearings, actually make this job a lot easier. It lost favor with the OEM's when they figured out shims were less money than machining the caps like they used to do. I have included two pictures of pin wrenches that are used on this style nut. Some just use a punch and hammer as a workaround.
Of course their are a ton of work arounds. Some have already been mentioned. Patience will be your friend.
Cheers

[popeyestruck]

Good info. I thought about the pinion preload. Couldnt I just replace the crush sleeve with a long spacer and shims? Then just remove shims in small increments until I get the preload correct

[Accelo]

Couldn't I just replace the crush sleeve with a long spacer and shims?

Good question. And yes it is possible. This is a hard core racer hack that is used to lock everything in place.
You measure the old sleeve and start with that amount of shim. One of the issues is you have to pull and replace the bearing several times to set the preload. You will want to avoid this. Every-time you pull the bearing you chance damaging it.
I wouldn't recommend it to the first time builder. The sleeve was designed to make the set up in one tightening sequence. I would stick with that.

[popeyestruck]

Got all the bearings in except for the pinion bearing. I need a piece of pipe or something. I'll figure it out tomorrow. ! question . Under the pinion bearing there was a .030 shim. I can't find a source and the one I took out is rough. I can reuse it but its got a couple bites out of it. Do you know where i can get it? Manual doesnt show it and parts stores show no shim when they put my truck in. I don't think it does anything other than stops the bearing from contacting the bottom of the pinion gear

[dsraven]

You need the shim or the pinion depth into the ring gear will be too deep.
Look for a differential rebuilder or a trans rebuilder in your area. A bearing supply place should also be able to supply one. Could also check out the bearing kit supplier for shims.

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by dsraven

You need the shim or the pinion depth into the ring gear will be too deep.
Look for a differential rebuilder or a trans rebuilder in your area. A bearing supply place should also be able to supply one. Could also check out the bearing kit supplier for shims.

OK that makes sense

[Accelo]

Typically the bearing kits come with the required shims. I notice your kit has shims but certainly too small for the pinion. I don't see a brush or marking grease either.
If you give me your ID and OD of the shim I will see if I have one. I could mail it to you for free. Likely you wouldn't get it till Thursday?
Typically this shim is perfect?
Consider the possibility that the bearing spun on the shaft. Not a good scenario.

[dsraven]

ID and Od are important but the thickness of the shim is also vital. It sets the depth of the pinion gear in relation to the ring gear.
Can you post up some pics of the old shim as well as the pinion gear shaft where the big bearing fits on?

[Accelo]

He listed the shim thickness.
"Under the pinion bearing there was a .030 shim"