Another Overheating Mystery

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

After 5-10 minutes 400 sbc is heating up to 220° I turn off and notice the radiator feels cool. Have replaced thermostat, (180°) got air out by filling and running even jacking up front end. Temp sensing unit from classic instruments does not have adapter that can trap air. Laser thermometer shows temps are reading correctly. I plan on replacing water pump next. I just finished rewiring entire truck and installed 4 row radiator because I installed air conditioning
Thought I had air pockets but I've done everything to get the air out. Any suggestions?

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

It was running fine before so it's not the head steam holes or anything like that. Can someone flip photo? I tried.

[truckster]

Here you go.

Just because you changed the thermostat doesn't mean it's good. Have you tried running without one to see what happens?

[kwmech]

What was/has changed from before?

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

Originally Posted by truckster

Here you go.

Just because you changed the thermostat doesn't mean it's good. Have you tried running without one to see what happens?

No but I will. Was just hoping it would fix itself 😄

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

Originally Posted by kwmech

What was/has changed from before?

just finished rewiring entire truck and installed 4 row radiator because I installed air conditioning

[SRU1436]

Originally Posted by Oregon 1967 GMC

just finished rewiring entire truck and installed 4 row radiator because I installed air conditioning

Are you reaching these temps while idling or driving? Is the AC on or off when you reach these temps? What kind of fan you you have? Fan shroud? How big are the cores on the radiator? I had the same problem on my chevelle after AC install. The AC condenser blocks a lot of air flow, it should be (I believe and if I remember right) based in vintage air directions about 1.5 inches away from radiator. My fix was add a HD fan clutch to my mechanical fan.

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

Originally Posted by SRU1436

Are you reaching these temps while idling or driving? Is the AC on or off when you reach these temps? What kind of fan you you have? Fan shroud? How big are the cores on the radiator? I had the same problem on my chevelle after AC install. The AC condenser blocks a lot of air flow, it should be (I believe and if I remember right) based in vintage air directions about 1.5 inches away from radiator. My fix was add a HD fan clutch to my mechanical fan.

Idling and driving
AC on and off
Clutch fan with shroud half in half out as direction say.
I'm thinking some air possibly left in system and tired water pump.

[Grumpy old man]

when you turn on the heat is it working and temp dropping ? I'm pretty sure the vintage air A/C system has a heater coolant cut off and you may have trapped air in the system are both heater hoses getting hot ? Maybe stuck closed and trapping air in the system ? do you have an overflow tank ? just a guess .

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-361-180

Use a Summit thermostat with the bypass in it or just drill a couple 1/8 " holes in a standard thermostat to help relive trapped air .

[72SB]

The fan is not on backwards...is it?

how many blades?

IMHO fewer (2 row) but larger row (1 1/4" to 1 1/2") is better than smaller 4 row radiators

[SRU1436]

Originally Posted by Oregon 1967 GMC

Idling and driving
AC on and off
Clutch fan with shroud half in half out as direction say.
I'm thinking some air possibly left in system and tired water pump.

I’d look at the fan clutch, if it’s a Hayden it will have a number on there. You can’t look up the number on their website and it will tell you what speed the fan turns when fully engaged. As an example on mine, it was a standard fan clutch and spun at 50-60% shaft speed when engaged. That wasn’t pulling enough air, I replaced with a HD fan clutch which spun at 80-90% shaft speed when engaged, which pulled enough air to cool the engine down.

I’m not an expert by any means, my recommendation is to do one modification/change at a time to see if it helps, and start with the easy and cheaper stuff first.

Good luck.

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

Originally Posted by SRU1436

I’d look at the fan clutch, if it’s a Hayden it will have a number on there. You can’t look up the number on their website and it will tell you what speed the fan turns when fully engaged. As an example on mine, it was a standard fan clutch and spun at 50-60% shaft speed when engaged. That wasn’t pulling enough air, I replaced with a HD fan clutch which spun at 80-90% shaft speed when engaged, which pulled enough air to cool the engine down.
I’m not an expert by any means, my recommendation is to do one modification/change at a time to see if it helps, and start with the easy and cheaper stuff first.
Good luck.

Good advice

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

Originally Posted by 72SB

The fan is not on backwards...is it?

how many blades?

IMHO fewer (2 row) but larger row (1 1/4" to 1 1/2") is better than smaller 4 row radiators

5 blades and I wish it was on backwards

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by Oregon 1967 GMC

5 blades

My K20 has a factory 7-blade fan (18") on a HD Hayden 2747 clutch and it does not overheat. If purging air from the system doesn't do the trick, maybe consider upgrading to a 7-blade on a HD clutch (if yours is standard duty).

[72SB]

Originally Posted by Oregon 1967 GMC

5 blades and I wish it was on backwards

My 5 blade would not keep up when I put in my built 357...7 blade fixed that

Also if you don't have a HD fan clutch, you need one

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

Originally Posted by Stocker

My K20 has a factory 7-blade fan (18") on a HD Hayden 2747 clutch and it does not overheat. If purging air from the system doesn't do the trick, maybe consider upgrading to a 7-blade on a HD clutch (if yours is standard duty).

Thank you

[samert111]

Does it run cooler and stay steady temp with the heat control on hot but without the fan running?
If so it needs the heater circuit open as a bypass loop to keep constant flow of coolant past the sending unit
I just went thru this on my 68 with the vintage air and 350 CI. Temp would climb up to 240 then bounce back down to 200 then back up again repeatedly. Once I turned the temp control to hot it would drop to 185 and stay there all day.
I tried everything including drilling holes in the stat, burping the system repeatedly but no luck.
I ended up adding a bypass loop from the unused coolant port in the intake to the unused port on top of the water pump and problem solved.
I can't explain why it works but it does.

[RichardJ]

I was thinking the same as grumpoldman and samart111. Vintage Air sells this heater hose bypass. It's intended mainly for fnord application. Check the heater hose temperatures as grumpy suggested.

[KQQL IT]

I put a high flow water pump on my 400 and it held the T Stat closed.
Took it out ran cool, ended up back with a stock water pump and the same Stat. Never an issue since.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by SRU1436

The AC condenser blocks a lot of air flow, it should be (I believe and if I remember right) based in vintage air directions about 1.5 inches away from radiator.

FYI, Vintage Air says to mount it as close to the radiator as possible without touching, so condenser and rad don't rub each other.

The closer the better, otherwise the fan(s) will draw air from the gaps between rad and condenser because it's the path of least resistance.

[rockyrivermark]

Maybe try pulling stat completed and see what happens.
Get IR temp gun and get temps at stat housing.
Both top and lower radiator hoses hot?

[Oregon 1967 GMC]

I'm going to be doing that this coming weekend and post an update
Thanks

[SRU1436]

Originally Posted by MikeB

FYI, Vintage Air says to mount it as close to the radiator as possible without touching, so condenser and rad don't rub each other.

The closer the better, otherwise the fan(s) will draw air from the gaps between rad and condenser because it's the path of least resistance.

You may be right, I don’t recall. For some reason 1.5 inches popped in my head.

[Already Gone]

Can't help with your problem but to check a thermostat put it in a pot of water and see if it opens when the water starts heating up. Bought a new thermostat to goin my newly rebuilt 400 engine and checked it with pot of water before it was installed.

[Steeveedee]

Remember when you could buy a new thermostat (or almost any part) and it worked, right out of the box? I still remember my fury when I put a rebuilt water pump on a car in the early '80s, and it leaked. I was working as a piece-work mechanic, and was set to bill the parts store for the labor to replace the defective pump, but the owner talked me down off the wall. Make your stuff right. I busted my hump to make sure that a vehicle I worked on was done right, especially the brakes, the first time. It's embarrassing to have someone come back and your diagnosis or repair is wrong...especially the brakes. Did I say that twice? Why, yes I did, and you all know why.