60-66 Suburban Challenges

[RyanAK]

Hey, fellas. First time considering moving into the 60-66 era. I've owned a '71 C10 Suburban and have daily driven (12,000mi+ each year) my '78 K10 for the last 3.5 years. I've been looking for a K14 Carryall to semi-daily and could use some advice from those with experience with these trucks. Specifically, the challenges that a working guy with a young family may face driving a 60-year-old rig on a regular basis.

First challenge with some of the ones I've looked at has been seating. How easy is it to track down OE seats for these?

How is the aftermarket support? It looks like a lot of components that are shared with the trucks is available, but things that are Suburban-specific may be a challenge.

How are the road manners? Whatever I own sees duty as a true 4x4, but certainly the majority of the time is on pavement. Stock driveline able to keep up with modern small-town and rural traffic? The two most recent trucks I've looked at were 292 I-6 and 305 V6... and I don't have any experience with those. Gearing seems to be 3.54 or 3.73.

This feels like the next direction I want to go. I haven't owned a late model for 4 years now. The '78 K10 and '63 Cutlass suit me and my family just fine. (Especially since dear wife drives a '17!)

Appreciate any and all feedback.
R

[Southcity]

I own a 1966 GMC 2 wheel drive Suburban which I have been daily driving for the last 10 years, and a 1966 Chevy K10 4x4 Suburban. Responses below:

1.How easy is it to track down OE seats for these? This is always a challenge, they tend to be expensive and in most cases will require a full rebuild/restoration to actually use them and be comfy in them. With that said, both my rigs are running the stock seats and I love them but you can use seats from other year Chevy trucks with good success (i.e. Buddy Buckets with center console, or Blazer style seats etc.)

2.How are the road manners? 4x4's with stock suspension setup, about as you would expect a truck from this era with leaf springs to drive on pavement roads - not bad if the road is smooth, pretty rough when the road is in bad shape.
For the 60-66 2 wheel drive Suburbans, they can be setup to drive very smooth and handle quite well. GMC=leaf spring rear, Chevy=trailing arm. Trailing arm suspensions tend to provide a little smoother ride than leaf spring rear.

3.Stock driveline able to keep up with modern small-town and rural traffic? Depends on many things, size of engine, type of transmission, how you drive, etc. Keep in mind that front disc brake setups are a tremendous help in driving these trucks in modern traffic.

The 60-66 Suburbans are an excellent vehicle in terms of room, versatility, unique looks etc. An all steel truck with all steel shell, they tend to be a bit noisy inside so taking steps to improve interior comfort and reduce noise goes a long way.

[RyanAK]

Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. Great info. And I’ve admired both of your truck. Sounds like I’m on a good path with this choice.

I hesitated yesterday on a dry ‘63 that had discs up front because the only interior was a pair of Camaro buckets and a squarebody console. It’s gone and I’m pretty heartbroken over that one!

I didn’t know the Chevy and GMC rear suspensions were different. That’s great to know. The ‘71 C10 was a trailing arm truck and it rode much nicer than the leaf spring ‘78. But I’m satisfied with a truck ride. Truly.

Gearing… so far I’ve come across 3.73 and 3.55, both with 4-speeds. Not sure what other gears were available, but my current ‘78 is a 3.73 automatic truck and with a 31.5” tire, it does fine both on highway and in challenging terrain.

I grew up with Suburbans and have owned my own Tahoes, Yukons and Suburbans since I’m 20. 24 years worth. Backdating my daily drivers has been the best decision I’ve made. I’m genuinely happy driving the old stuff.

Now… just to find the right 60-66!!

[Southcity]

Good luck with the search. It took me quite some time, patience and selectiveness to find the two that I have. Don't settle on one you don't want, hold out for the one that feels right. Yeah I know, this is not ground breaking advise.

[RyanAK]

Absolutely. Great advice. I've been patient and have had good luck. It took me close to 8 months to locate the "right" '78 K10 Suburban, and those are relatively plentiful.

Could always pseudo-NAPCO an Advanced Design... Hmmm...

Nah. '60-'66.

[Riverstory]

I've frame-off restored a 66 Chevy 2wd panel with original 283 3speed w/OD and had a ton of fun, learned a bunch, and turned it into a Helms bakery truck.

I'm now working on a 66 Chevy 2wd panel with big block. Obviously, not original. Resto mod here we come.

There is a ton of info within this website - sometimes it just hard to locate.

I do know that the 64-66 panels had their own style of bucket seats. Real tough to find originals. And from what I have read, burb seating is just as tough.

With that, you might want to consider ONLY purchasing a truck that has complete seating if you're looking to do a full restoration.

Good luck on your endeavor.

[RyanAK]

Thanks for the input! It does seem like the seating is a tough find. It doesn't need to be a complete correct restoration, but I'd like to be able to have my family all seated! It looks like a 67-72 rear seat is an option for the second row and would look somewhat period. This will be a truck that gets driven. A lot.

I've located a couple 4wds with full seating but they have some significant issues otherwise, ranging from sketchy body work (sheetmetal is my weak suit...) to rather optimistic pricing on the part of the seller. I'm diligently looking for the 'right' truck. It's out there somewhere. And then I know I'll have the resource of the forum for the assistance needed. It was the same with my '71 C10 and '78 K10 Suburbans.

[VictoriaHardware]

I have owned numerous 60-66 Suburbans- both 2WD & 4WD, both barn door and tailgate.

Personally I love the barn doors and hate the tailgate. Barn doors are shared with Panel trucks so parts are easier to find. They are light and easy to open and close. Entry/exit into the back is much easier than the tailgate. Some people hate the barn doors because the doors block your sight in the rear view mirror. It's a little annoying but I can deal with it.

Some love the tailgate for sitting on and there is no blocked rear view with the single wide window. Lift/tailgate components are unique the the 60-66 Suburbans. Tough to find parts and expensive because there is so many pieces to it. Most burbs for sale have broken or missing hardware. The lift gate is heavy and for a short person it is difficult to open and close, especially on a 4WD. Worse if it has big wheels or tires. The tailgate is heavy too.

Lastly, you can convert one into the other if you gather all of the pieces. Search the threads here.

There is about a 50/50 split of barn door vs tailgate Suburbans built. It seems people are split 50/50 on which one they love/hate also, so everyone's happy. The point is that which back doors a truck has can make or break your buying decision.

[RyanAK]

Thanks for the thoughts. I’ve had Suburbans of all the later generations with both doors and gate, and honestly don’t have a preference. My ‘71 had the gate, and the mod to use the gas pistons to open the upper hatch was a huge deal. The ‘78 has the gate with power glass and there are times when it’s a pain. Doors were great on a few Tahoes and Yukons I’ve owned. The lift gate on my ‘04 Z71 Suburban was likely my favorite… spent a lot of time under it changing in to/ out of fishing waders in the rain.

That said, at this time I’m so used to a gate, that would probably be my preference. However, I’d likely not limit myself if an otherwise good truck comes along based on doors or gate. I’d take either truck you posted.

[CG]

I dont have any of these years trucks, but I do have a 72 burb with gate and a 69 panel with barn doors. Someone put together a list of parts to put the gas struts on barn doors over in that area of the board, could probably do the same with these. One of the board members took a hatch gate burb and combined them to one large lift gate. Took some work but was pretty cool. Again you could probably do the same with these if you have the skill.

I have had a couple of Astro vans with barn doors and I put a lot of miles on them. You get used to the middle post, but it would have been nicer without them.

[RyanAK]

You do get used to what you have. 4wd ‘60-‘66 Suburban/Carryall is scare enough that gate or doors won’t be a deciding factor. Drivetrain and rust, followed by how complete the interior is would be my top priorities. As complete of a truck as can be found within budget. It’s out there… somewhere!

[1966 K10]

Ive been daily driving my 66 K10 for a few years now in small town rural farm community where the speed limit is perfect for this old ride. Right now Im trying my hardest to keep it bone stock but am collecting parts to safely upgrade when the parts get too difficult to source. The kids complain about the worn out seats and heater that barely defrosts the windshield in 10* temps but that can be fixed by restoring the seats and adding an aux heater in the rear. The factory front and short middle seat have been perfect so far but also have some panel utility buckets waiting in the wings when mom says she needs to get to the back more easily. The short middle helps when loading lumber or other long stuff.

It has a V8, 4 speed and factory 221 tcase and will admit the gear noise is a bit loud but the factory exhaust is SUPER quiet. Im sure a rebuilt trans and t case will quiet it down some but finding syncros for the SM420 is rough as they are NLA and I havent found any NOS in the past 8 or so years of searching. The pinion seal on the 12 bolt rear is also NLA so just waiting for that to start leaking to help make a decision. I do have a locker in the rear which makes this thing unstoppable in snow and mud. I studded the 7.00x15s and now ice is no longer an issue. The 31in tire with 3.73 is great but the 33s will be nicer on the freeway.

The only thing I dont like is the factory lift block in the rear. Off road on hard acceleration it does wheel hop a bit so something has got to be done to avoid breakage. Either a center track bar or flip the factory rear cast hanger to make it into a tension type setup like on 1 ton task force trucks.

Here is the list of parts I will be adding as needed:

Dana 44 front and 12 bolt rear out of a later blazer with disk up front 3.73 gears and got the sway bar and mounts to put in as well. I also have a 3/4 ton setup with the same gearing but 14 bolt rear.

Divorced NP205 and rebuilt SM456

Gen VI 454 and crate 350 to choose from

255/85/16 mud terrains on factory steel wheels with 66 hubcaps, if I run the 3/4 ton axles Im out of luck on the caps.

I wasnt worried about A/C here in the PNW but the last few years have been brutal. Looks like Ill be getting the dealer installed in dash kit going this year or next depending on funds.

Since just over 1000 K burbs were built each year finding one is the hard part, deciding how much rust to take on is another.

[1966 K10]

This has been my daily prior to the 66 for a good 6 years or so. Its been great and is the choice for longer camping trips but the shorter WB of the 66 makes city/town parking/maneuvering much easier

[RyanAK]

Sheesh! Both of those are perfect. Well done. I daily drove a '71 C10 Suburban and now split time between the '78 K10 Burb and the '63 Cutlass that is for sale. Bought my first 'late model' in years this past Thursday... an '03 K2500 Suburban. 20 years old, but what luxury compared to what I've been driving! I don't know if I like it yet. Ha.

I really appreciate the insight into driving the '66. That truck is just right and your long-term plans match what I've been considering. I'm looking for a west-coast truck since I have a good friend north of Seattle that wants to do the build-out. Because I'm currently working 70+ hours a week (and have been since August 1st with no end in sight...) I'm more than willing to have Matt at Seattle Speed Shop do the wrenching. I have a Model A Phaeton blow apart in the yard that I need to concentrate on putting into a pre-WWII soup job.

Initial plan would be to get it reliable pretty much stock. Rural Pennsylvania is well suited for an old truck. Traffic on my commute consists of a 'jam' when a logging truck and an Amish buggy meet at a crossroads and can't decide who has the right-of-way.

Driveline mod considerations include your suggestions above... though Matt wants to do a 4BTA. I keep pondering something like a 401 Nailhead with T-5 and divorced NP205. Time will tell.

First things first... I need the nifty little Olds sold so I can jump on a '62 GMC I have located that looks to be dry and complete with good running 305.

First world problems, eh?

[1966 K10]

Originally Posted by RyanAK

your long-term plans match what I've been considering. I'm looking for a west-coast truck since I have a good friend north of Seattle that wants to do the build-out.

Driveline mod considerations include your suggestions above... though Matt wants to do a 4BTA. I keep pondering something like a 401 Nailhead with T-5 and divorced NP205. Time will tell.

If I started with a stripped out burb and funds to back it I would definitely power it differently. A 383 vortec SBC, 93 NV4500, IH divorced NP205, Dana 60 front and 14 bolt rear with 4.10s and 35in tires. If it was a GMC Id find a Pontiac V8 and Dana 60 rear instead of the 14 bolt. Since I like super slow crawling off road an aux transmission in front of the t case would be the ultimate. If you put in a Spicer 5831 you not only get an additional 2:1 low but a .73 OD too. If running the doubler Id change the axle ratio to 3.54 or so for the ultimate spread. Using a 82 up hydraulic clutch setup would also make things much easier.

For brakes Id definitely go hydroboost and get the bonus power steering at the same time. Swap in some rear disks while you are at it to lower sprung weight.

The main issue with this era truck is the leaf springs, which are available but SUPER expensive and still ride like a covered wagon. Doing a B52 conversion up front will make the ride like a modern vehicle with 4in lift using a stock spring. As mentioned a shackle flip in the rear would get rid of the factory block but still need a track bar if you like to use the loud pedal and want to avoid wheel hop. I looked for decades to find a 4x4 burb and after about 8 years or so I gave up settled on an original 65 2wd and was going to convert it to 4wd. If I was to go that route Id rather start with a GMC since they came factory with rear leaves and would be a better candidate for suspension upgrade.

Sometimes I wish my rides werent so original that way I wouldnt feel so bad changing stuff up.

[RyanAK]

Originally Posted by 1966 K10

…I looked for decades to find a 4x4 burb and after about 8 years or so I gave up settled on an original 65 2wd and was going to convert it to 4wd. If I was to go that route Id rather start with a GMC since they came factory with rear leaves and would be a better candidate for suspension upgrade.

Sometimes I wish my rides werent so original that way I wouldnt feel so bad changing stuff up.

Could always sell that ‘66 to a guy in PA and go find that clapped out GMC to build…

[1966 K10]

Originally Posted by RyanAK

Could always sell that ‘66 to a guy in PA and go find that clapped out GMC to build…

Sorry this and one other vehicle I own (German 15 window VW bus) are keepers. I often call them 'a coffin' as i plan to be buried in them so to speak.

The fun for me is the hunt and to build them for the least amount and get the most miles out of them. Already working on a 'hobo build' 60s farm truck special. So far got $500 invested in the build consisting of:

65 lwb GMC factory 3/4 ton 4x4 chassis complete with rebuilt SM465/T221. HD Dana 44 front, HO52 rear with factory Detroit locker w/ 4.57 gears

Gen IV 454, C&C 14 bolt with 4.56 if I decide to go dually. A full set of KH 8.25/16.5 wheels.

Just looking for a crusty GMC truck cab and title to slap on top and a set oc Hummer tires to finish it up. I think I can get it done for under $3K and have a decent beater I wont feel so bad about driving around in the salty winters.

My only issue I have right now is a 15mo that is taking up ALL my time.

I recommend collecting all the parts you plan on using as that is what takes most of the time these days. Keeping your eyes open and wallet ready the right rig will come along and everything will fall into place.

[aotte1]

Agree with above suggestion on your decision. Take your time to purchase what you like. Also, have two 1966 suburbans, with original paint, chevrolet 2 WD and 4 WD GMC. Found one on an almond farm in CA, parked on the back 40. Good luck in your search. Only suggestion from my experience, look in way out of way places, if you want to buy from owner, vs reseller. Many 4WDs that survived will be in the mountains, or south. Where, found my three 64-66.
NOTE: Not sure of your knowledge on originality or desire for it. However, there are a lot put together ones from different parts. 4WD front Frames need to be carefully inspected for damage/cracks/weld repaired/spliced in frame sections.