Are automatic locking hubs really that bad?

[kipps]

Are these auto hubs really a bad news deal that needs to be discarded as soon as possible? Or are folks possibly just ditching them because they don't understand how to maintain and repair them?

I've never been inside an automatic hub, but the ones I have been around(on a 1996 f150) have been plenty dependable enough.

In other words, is it at all reasonable to want to install auto hubs for the convenience factor they give? Can the auto hubs be repaired and maintained in such a way that they're dependable and trouble-free?

[mongocanfly]

May just be my personal bad experiences , but I dont like them...
They were nothing but trouble for me..wouldnt lock when you needed them to ..
Went thru a couple sets.. finally they engaged driving down the highway and wadded up the guts in them..that was it for me.. put warns on and never looked back..

[DoubleDubya]

I had them on trucks back in the day and my current truck has them. So far I have never had a single failure for them to work when required. That being said, I suppose it only takes a single failure for you to want to switch to manual hubs.

[THI]

I have purchased several used 1980's trucks over the years, K10's, K20's & even a K30 that had the factory auto hubs - None of them were working properly when I bought the vehicles and I replaced the hubs with Warn Manual Hubs. My personal experience, I would replace the hubs with manual hubs and be done.

[44th Miss Inf]

I’ve run them since the 80s with no issues. I have seen people put too much grease in them and have problems (I have a pair of NOS D60 auto hubs, and they only have what I would call one pump of grease in them) but other than that, no issues.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by kipps

Are these auto hubs really a bad news deal that needs to be discarded as soon as possible? Or are folks possibly just ditching them because they don't understand how to maintain and repair them?

I've never been inside an automatic hub, but the ones I have been around(on a 1996 f150) have been plenty dependable enough.

In other words, is it at all reasonable to want to install auto hubs for the convenience factor they give? Can the auto hubs be repaired and maintained in such a way that they're dependable and trouble-free?

Originally Posted by THI

I have purchased several used 1980's trucks over the years, K10's, K20's & even a K30 that had the factory auto hubs - None of them were working properly when I bought the vehicles and I replaced the hubs with Warn Manual Hubs. My personal experience, I would replace the hubs with manual hubs and be done.

I never even tried to fix mine. It just wasn't worth the time or effort or expense when I could throw about a hundred bucks at it and have brand new Warn hubs that I knew would work.

I never saw what the big deal was with manual hubs anyway? If you're off the pavement or if it's winter, just lock them in and leave them that way running in 2wd until you do or don't need 4wd. I've seen more problems with hubs from not using them until you need them and then find out it doesn't work anymore. I made a little money off of hunters one time taking apart their hubs and cleaning and lubing them after they had gotten stuck earlier with no 4wd working. Twenty bucks or something and they were glad not to have to drive 40 miles to town to a shop.

That said, if you want a set to play with - come get them. I will even meet you out on the highway

[LS short box]

Back in the day I was a line tech at Chev dealership. 79-81. Serviced many 4wd hubs.
The only thing I saw with manual hubs is that water can freeze them up and you can't engage them. Good advice lock them in early the winter and leave them in.
If you have 75-80? full time hubs make sure if you service them lube the inner bearing that is in the front drive shaft yoke.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by LS short box

Back in the day I was a line tech at Chev dealership. 79-81. Serviced many 4wd hubs.
The only thing I saw with manual hubs is that water can freeze them up and you can't engage them. Good advice lock them in early the winter and leave them in.
If you have 75-80? full time hubs make sure if you service them lube the inner bearing that is in the front drive shaft yoke.

The hunters with the Ford pickup: the right hub was jammed with old dry hard grease and the spring wouldn't push the intermediate engaging piece (name?) into the inner and outer splines. That's why they got stuck somewhere but I don't remember how they got out. They came by the trading post where I was staying that fall, and I think my friend the owner was away that day. Anyway I took it apart and cleaned and re-greased it so that it would work. I did both hubs of course but only one was really bad. They must not have needed 4wd for a few years before that!

I bought a 1980 K/10 brand new and it had manual hubs. It was a four speed manual if that makes any difference. The first auto-mechanical hubs I ever saw were on our 1991 Suburban that we bought in 2001.

"inner bearing" - are you talking about the spindle bearing?

[1976gmc20]

Honey truck driver: shovels all day because auto hubs don't work and it's not really in 4wd.

Tow truck driver: I lock my hubs in the fall and leave them that way all winter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVrlnfJdtlk

[LS short box]

Yes the inner spindle bearing.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by LS short box

Yes the inner spindle bearing.

I never went that deep on a wheel bearing re-pack.

But I had three of them go out in Alaska in a two year period. Never one before or since. Made a hell of a buzzing noise.

[57NAPCO]

I thought if you had a 203 transfer case with auto hubs you could not use manual locking hubs unless you altered the internals in the TC ?

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by 57NAPCO

I thought if you had a 203 transfer case with auto hubs you could not use manual locking hubs unless you altered the internals in the TC ?

I gathered that he wanted to go the other way: manual --> auto.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by 57NAPCO

I thought if you had a 203 transfer case with auto hubs you could not use manual locking hubs unless you altered the internals in the TC ?

Okay, sorry - if it's a 203 "full time" transfer case then the hubs are neither manual nor automatic.

They would be just a solid connection as if a manual hub locked in, just like early 4wd trucks/jeeps before somebody invented hubs that you could unlock for road driving and/or towing. It was real common back then for fishermen and hunters to tow a jeep behind a (2wd) pickup and camper.

I don't know about putting manual hubs on them? The shaft and axles would still be driven by the TC. I have on rare occasions put a pickup in "2wd low" by just leaving the hubs unlocked, in order to get more power or hold-back on hard surfaces. Like coming off the icefield pass up in Alberta with a heavy trailer and heavy load in the bed!

[farmall]

I like the auto hubs on my K5 winter daily driver. 2nd winter and no problems. Shift in and out almost every day. I don't think I would go out and buy new auto hubs. My 1 tons stay locked in and my newest1 ton is all wheel drive.

[Corts60]

I have manual hubs on my 88 k10 suburban and I usually lock them in at first snow then leave them locked the rest of winter and just engage 2wd/4wd when I need. Not sure if that’s good or bad.

[57NAPCO]

I’m converting my full time 74 K20 203 TC to part time with manual hubs, I’ll let ya know how it goes. I started it a couple months ago and had to pull off to do other important stuff lol

The red circle is one of the 4 cams ? From the mile marker kit.

[cadillac_al]

I wouldn't want to ride around on black ice in 2wd with my front hubs locked. That could get scary. I wouldn't want to be locked in 4wd when it is half ice and half tar either. That is the beauty of the NP 203, you never have to think about that stuff and still get 10 mpg like any other truck.

[Just call me Sean]

I assume Chevy would work like my old Dodge full time 4wd. The transfer case is also a differential. One tire loses grip you don't go anywhere, you have to lock the transfer case. It had high, high lock, low, low lock. I once blew out the rear end and drove it home with front wheel drive in high lock.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by cadillac_al

I wouldn't want to ride around on black ice in 2wd with my front hubs locked. That could get scary. I wouldn't want to be locked in 4wd when it is half ice and half tar either. That is the beauty of the NP 203, you never have to think about that stuff and still get 10 mpg like any other truck.

I've never owned one of those, but the ones I drove at the shop back in 74/75 always seemed clunky. Despite the center differential they would jerk in a tight turn on a hard surface. These were brand new trucks, or fairly new ones coming in for service or warranty work. I was glad that my 1973 was built early in that model year and had the 205 TC despite being an automatic.

On the other hand, we have a 1988 Jeep with the full time option transfer case and it works wonderfully. We leave it in FT all the time summer and winter: pavement, dirt, and snow/ice. It just always goes where you point it no questions asked. Even the stock suspension has enough flex that on any sort of normal road it keeps the weight on all four wheels and doesn't spin despite three open differentials. Once it a while in extreme situations I will stick it in 4 low regular 4wd. But of course being a Jeep it is a maintenance nightmare.

[NJ68stepside]

Had a 2007 F250 diesel with the auto hubs. They were vacuum controlled. Lasted about 100,000 miles.

Conveniently had a selector on the hub. “ auto & locked” so I never changed them. Just would lock them when going out on a snowy day.

I tried to repair the hubs a few times. Never successful.

[cadillac_al]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

I've never owned one of those, but the ones I drove at the shop back in 74/75 always seemed clunky. Despite the center differential they would jerk in a tight turn on a hard surface. These were brand new trucks, or fairly new ones coming in for service or warranty work. I was glad that my 1973 was built early in that model year and had the 205 TC despite being an automatic.

On the other hand, we have a 1988 Jeep with the full time option transfer case and it works wonderfully. We leave it in FT all the time summer and winter: pavement, dirt, and snow/ice. It just always goes where you point it no questions asked. Even the stock suspension has enough flex that on any sort of normal road it keeps the weight on all four wheels and doesn't spin despite three open differentials. Once it a while in extreme situations I will stick it in 4 low regular 4wd. But of course being a Jeep it is a maintenance nightmare.

That's why I drive Jeeps too. That Select Trac transfer case works just like my Chevy 203's. My Jeeps will bind a little in a tight U turn but it doesn't hurt anything. I love the peace of mind knowing I can pull into any driveway just like it's summer time and these vehicles are ready anytime. If it's really bad I can lock the transfer case. The girlfriend can drive them too, just put it in drive and go.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by cadillac_al

That's why I drive Jeeps too. That Select Trac transfer case works just like my Chevy 203's. My Jeeps will bind a little in a tight U turn but it doesn't hurt anything. I love the peace of mind knowing I can pull into any driveway just like it's summer time and these vehicles are ready anytime. If it's really bad I can lock the transfer case. The girlfriend can drive them too, just put it in drive and go.

We just drive our jeep around the property and maybe to close neighbors.

Windows don't work, a/c doesn't work, and the heater/defrost barely works. Seems to have really low/no oil pressure at idle after being driven for a while.

But it works really great for driving the quarter mile over to our barn and back, even when the snow is drifted deep. (still just in "full time" 4wd)

[special-K]

I never had a problem from automatic hubs. They are not designed or intended for serious off road use. They are designed for convenience. It's not that they aren't strong enough for off road, it's that for many off road demands the hubs need to stay continuously engaged and unless there is steady torque on automatics they want to disengage. Same as the Gov-Loc. They are good for what they are designed to do.

I swap to manuals for that reason. I'm less about convenience and all about a 4wd being as capable as possible. I only leave manual hubs locked in where there are patchy road conditions. Leaving them locked in all winter defeats the purpose of lock-out hubs, reduced drag, wear, and tear. It's easy enough for me to get out and lock them in when needed. I like to run a posi or locker in my 4wds. That gets saves me from using 4wd most of those short little moments.

In the mountains, all the guys hated the full-time 4wd when it came out. They were complaining it would lock in on a turn and steer the truck causing accidents. 100% covered roads are one thing. Patchy, how it is except when snow is falling, is a different story. Leaving hubs locked in gives you shift on fly between 4hi and 2hi. In 2hi with hubs locked in doesn't affect steering on ice or snow unless there is a posi. The differential allows the wheels to spin independently. The only difference is the wheel is spinning the axle shaft and not freewheeling on the spindle,