47-55.1 Cast header question

[51 3600]

Does anyone on here run Hooker style cast headers on a LS engine in a AD truck? If so could you provide dimensions as in pics below. Pics would be even better. The headers I'm using now fit but forces the steering column out so far that it will require major surgery on the inner fender for it to fit. I'm hoping cast headers tuck in closer to the engine so will solve most of the problem but I'd like more info before buying them.

[62c30]

I have a set of the summit brand cast iron on my 5.3. it's in my 61 but I'll probably run a set on my 52. I can get some pictures with measurements tomorrow so if no one else chimes in you might be able to get a better idea. I would like to know too instead of having to figure it out on mine.

[mr48chev]

By gum, finally a header company that does something right, Here is the diagram from their cast LS header page. Real drawings with real measurements. https://www.holley.com/products/exha.../parts/8501HKR

Save it to your computer off this or off their website and you have it to expand and study. I'm thinking the measurements on 62C30's 61 are within frog hairs of the 47/54 in that area though.

[youngrodder]

I'm using these Hooker cast headers with my set up. Modified stock frame with a 5.7 LS. Other than clearancing slightly for the flange/collector on both frame rails (top edges) they work great. Holley provides a GM prt# for the Flange/collector gaskets. I recommend using those. They seal great.

** Yes my steering carrier barring is very close and no it does not touch and yes it works fine.

Thanks
Marc

[Accelo]

That's really cool, how you made the 5.7LS look like an old SBC.
How did you relocate the coils to behind the block?
Love the color combinations. The flat and semi-gloss accessories Look just right!
Outstanding job.
Cheers

[62c30]

Hopefully this will help, if you need anything else let me know. Remember it's a 61 frame ..

[51 3600]

Thanks all for the info; very helpful. mr48 I saw those dimensions but I was trying to get a better idea of the fit up near the bends which isn't given in those diagrams. Width looks narrower but hard to tell.

youngrodder it looks like it's still a squeeze but you've made it work, beautifully too I should add. Hooker 8501 HKR?

62c30 are those the Patriot H8097 headers? Pic looks like it's tighter to the block than the Hooker. Does anyone know if the Patriot is a copy of the Hooker? By pics online they look the same.

62c30 can you get a dimension of the distance perpendicular from the head surface as marked in red in the pic below? It would really help the thought process of my old small brain.

[62c30]

Yes I can tomorrow. They are the coated summit racing brand with the ball and socket flange. When I was looking at buying a set they all looked basically the same and I like summits customer service if I had an issue.

[mr48chev]

YOungrodders photos are worth gold in this case.

When we put the Cad 500 in my 71 My son and I heated and bent the top of the frame rail down to clear the exhaust manfold. It made for a nice factory looking roll and won't cause strength issues later.

[youngrodder]

[QUOTE=51 3600;9180624]Thanks all for the info; very helpful. mr48 I saw those dimensions but I was trying to get a better idea of the fit up near the bends which isn't given in those diagrams. Width looks narrower but hard to tell.

youngrodder it looks like it's still a squeeze but you've made it work, beautifully too I should add. Hooker 8501 HKR? - Thank you. If it ain't tight, it ain't right...ha ha .Yes, they were the uncoated version. I sent them to a local powder coater and had them thermal powder coated in a titanium color. I highly recommend. I had a leaking valve cover leak oil on them while they were hot. Once it cooled the baked on oil came off with Simple Green and a Scotchbrite pad (I was amazed at how they came back).

Thanks
Marc

[62c30]

Sorry for the delay, I keep the frame over at my parents house.

[51 3600]

Perfect. Thanks 62c30. Those headers will give me 1”+ more space than I have now. Gonna place an order with Summit today.

[62c30]

I haven't started the engine yet but the fit and finish of these are nice. The price was good too. Hopefully they work for you, post pictures. I'll probably use them on my 52 build whenever that starts.

[51 3600]

After only 2 days I received the cast headers from Summit and got to work mounting them. Driver's side went on just as I hoped leaving plenty of room for steering column. Just have to remake the rod end support bracket to reposition the column after I attach the inner fender.



Passenger side not as successful. Header flange hits the starter and inside of frame preventing fit to head. Header has to move up and forward slightly to fit into place. Pic doesn't include gasket either.



Solutions:
1) Grind 3/16" off starter side and frame side of flange should allow it to mount to head. Might not be enough clearance during engine operation.
2) Grind 3/16" of starter side of flange and cut slot into frame boxing plate for clearance.
3) Find smaller starter (solenoid is the problem) and clearance frame.
4) Suggestions?



Other than that, driver's side hugs the block nicely. (Block of wood and bungee chord just because I don't have 3 hands.)



Last couple of months have been a bear trying to move forward with this truck. Find a problem, fix a problem, create another problem.....repeat. It's exhausting, ha.

[whitedog76]

I've been closely watching your progress. In my research, those manifolds are basically copies of the 2010 and newer Camaro. If you go to Rockauto, you can see that the Camaro and G8 have the solenoid further back on the starter motor vs. the truck starters. So maybe try a Camaro starter.

[youngrodder]

Originally Posted by whitedog76

I've been closely watching your progress. In my research, those manifolds are basically copies of the 2010 and newer Camaro. If you go to Rockauto, you can see that the Camaro and G8 have the solenoid further back on the starter motor vs. the truck starters. So maybe try a Camaro starter.

You might be onto something here.

My LS drivetrain was out of a 01' Camaro and I did not have any interference with the starter when using the same manifolds.

Thanks
Marc

[62c30]

I didn't have any issues with clearance on my starter. It's a 5.3 4l60 out of an 03 Tahoe.

[dsraven]

maybe a starter swap is in your future. might as well swap it now, and not have to grind your new maniflods, than have the temps from the really close manifold burn up the original starter. that way your manifolds stay intact as well. also, what about jacking the engine up an inch or notching the frame (with a gusset of course). just a thought.

[dsraven]

on the original task force frame I modded with a TCI MII cross member I used a 5.3LS truck engine, mid 2000's camaro exhaust, oil pan and engine mounts with the truck starter (I think). it all fit well and the engine sat low, the oil pan was level with the bottom of the cross member basically.

[51 3600]

Originally Posted by 62c30

I didn't have any issues with clearance on my starter. It's a 5.3 4l60 out of an 03 Tahoe.

Mine is a 5.3 4L60 out of an '01 Tahoe so I can't explain it unless there is a difference in the starter and your frame is just a little wider or your engine sits higher in the frame.

Originally Posted by whitedog76

I've been closely watching your progress. In my research, those manifolds are basically copies of the 2010 and newer Camaro. If you go to Rockauto, you can see that the Camaro and G8 have the solenoid further back on the starter motor vs. the truck starters. So maybe try a Camaro starter.

This info is a big help. I looked on Rockauto and can see a big difference in starters. 2010 Camaro solenoid sits a lot farther back on the starter which would help. Plus, the stock truck solenoid sticks out wider than the starter itself where the Camaro solenoid sits inward. One question without seeing the Camaro unit is whether the boss on the block (pic below) gets in the way.

Originally Posted by dsraven

maybe a starter swap is in your future. might as well swap it now, and not have to grind your new manifolds, than have the temps from the really close manifold burn up the original starter. that way your manifolds stay intact as well. also, what about jacking the engine up an inch or notching the frame (with a gusset of course). just a thought.

Yup, a trip to the junk yard is in my future to find that Camaro starter. I'd rather experiment with a used one than spring for a new or reman to start. Just last week I finished pulling and reinstalling the engine to fix a crossmember problem so not inclined to do it again if I can help it.

I'll update this thread as soon as I get that starter.

[62c30]

The Tahoe had traction control so it was dbw not sure if that would have a different starter. I'll have to check to see how close my starter is, I might be buying a new starter too...

[dsraven]

a quick trip to the parts store, enroute to the wrecking yard, may prove worthy of the time lost if it saves you a trip to the wrecker. you may have the guy bring up a boxed starter for you to look at and compare to your old one. after checking a camaro starter vs your original starter you may be able to tell right away if it will work and if you wanna do that swap. THEN make the trip to the wrecker for a test starter or simply by the new one at the parts store and save that time walking. if it doesn't fit you can always return it if you didn't connect it. another thing to ensure is the drive and whether it will work with the ring gear you have. check the number of teeth on the drive for the starter that works with your existing flywheel and then do the same for the new starter.
one thing to watch for is the starter mounting. some have a long and a short bolt, so one mounting "ear" is shorter than the other. this means that under a hard load the front housing on the starter can be put under a lot of stress, causing the housing to crack and break. this can also cause the engine block to crack and break. likely more common on alumnium blocks but something to be aware of for sure. it is a fairly common issue so you could google it for more info
here is a link that has some pics of that failure and also some starter info.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ls1-fbody.html
here is a link that shows a few starter differences.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...fferences.html

[dsraven]

the pirate 4x4 site also has some LS starter stuff that may be interesting for you before you begin your trek.
https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/ls...ences.1033264/

[51 3600]

Thanks for the links dsraven. Discovered no 2010-15 Camaros in junkyards near me so trip to auto parts store was a timely suggestion. car-part.com shows starters not far from me so used available just need to confirm what will work.

[dsraven]

if you know your existing starter is for the engine you have in the truck then take that with you so you can match up the starter drive as far as nmber of teeth and diameter. the rest will ikely work itself out as far as bolt patter etc. if you have a starter with the lirtle brace that bolts on to the far end of the starter and from there over to the engine block, try to re-use that if possible because it helps keep the starter rom flexing under load GM didn't put them there for decoration, lol.