Title / vin issues - suggestions?

[silverstreak]

Hello, I recently purchased a 72 C10. The vin on the title matched the VIN plate on the door jamb. When I went to the MVA they advised my title was not valid and a more recent title was issued in another state. Has anyone else ran into this situation, and did Chevrolet stamp the VIN anywhere else on the truck like the frame? Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[chevmn]

There should be a vin stamped on top of left (driver) frame rail, near steering box. You will likely have to do some cleanup to see. There has been quite a bit of discussion on this topic in a thread just below regarding a 72 C10 (or is it) which might be helpful.

[LS short box]

When I buy a project and before I hand the seller any money we go to the DMV and confirm the title is good. Sometimes a seller will go to the DMV and say the "old" title has been lost. The DMV will issues a new one. Now there are two titles. One is good the other is not. The titles all have a number on them used to confirm its the most current.
The states have become more connected to each other so they can check titles.

[silverstreak]

chevmn - excellent, thank you! I'll do some searching in that area in the morning.
LS short box - good suggestion especially in this day and age. The previous owner had it for the last 8 years and he knew the guy he bought it from.

[jocko]

The VIN on the frame rail is only a partial - but finding more matching VINs on your truck is unrelated to this issue and will not help resolve it (your vin tag already matches, DMV doesn't need more proof). The issue is the dual-state titling attempt - and someone somewhere has a more current one than the one the seller gave you. Out of curiosity, does the truck have a SPID?

Was the seller's name and signature on the title (and did he confirm identity in any way)?

What did the DMV tell you to do? What does the seller say? LS is spot-on, running a title check is always an excellent idea - I realize that doesn't help you now though.

Lousy situation, sorry to hear - please keep us posted and I hope DMV is helpful and that the seller is too - could potentially be a simple p'work screw up somewhere, but DMV telling me there's a more current title out there would concern me. I feel your pain - and I did go thru this once with a mis-print on a title from a prior dyslexic DMV employee that didn't flare up until I bought the truck. But DMV was helpful and we were able to get it sorted out. Hope the same works out for you too.

[silverstreak]

jocko - yes, the seller's name and address were on the title and it was the correct address. I'm currently corresponding with an ISS title fraud agent with the state MVA.
I just went outside with a flashlight and found the vin stamped on the frame as chevmn pointed out. While I was out there it dawned on me to check for the label in the glove box door. Now here's where things get even more crazy. The title and VIN plate agree. The stamping on the frame and the VIN sticker on the glove box door agree but differ from the VIN plate where the 4th digit from the end is off. One is a 5 and one is a 6. I had to get my magnifying glass to confirm. I'm now thinking human error at the factory by these two numbers being off by exactly 1000. The numbers preceding and after the mixed up digit are exactly the same....

[jocko]

Glad you're in comms with the agent, that's good.
Trying to wrap my head around the SPID and frame partial matching each other but also NOT the other two matching things (vin tag and title).
The metal VIN is what matters - and that is normally what drives the VIN on the title (or at least what is check, if it is checked), so that makes sense.
I'm kinda wondering if the frame is stamped based on the SPID traveling down the assembly line with it (before it meets Mr. Cab) - that could be why those two match. But I kinda assumed the Build Sheet is what traveled down the line with the frame to which everything else got added.

Calling Keith! Calling Keith! someone send up the bat signal for Keith!! I bet he knows what drove what when it came to VINs.

Well, at least now that you KNOW there is a mismatch, I am guessing this will work out ok in the end (Whew!). Might want to grab the door VIN blue sticker for another piece of the puzzle to compare.

[silverstreak]

I'd like to hope it works out. No blue sticker. This thing's been painted at least 3 times. Thanks for everyone's responses. You all have been very helpful, and I appreciate it!

[chevmn]

I know I would not have slept tonight until I looked at the frame, however not sure that helped either, might have just added confusion. I know it would for me. Good luck.

[Bigdav160]

Since you normally have to surrender the Title on transfer it would seem whoever holds the Title is the true owner.

I have a few Titles in my safe from vehicles that were stolen from me. If they ever showed up with another titled owner I could only assume it was done fraudulently.

[72c20customcamper]

Titles can be replaced I’ve gotten new titles after I miss placed the original . The new title is suppose to void out the previous issued one .

Something going on with the frame and spid matching but not the vin tag . Even if it’s the one digit not something the factory would do .

[desert-rat]

Here in Cali, you don't need a title to transfer a vehicle. You just fill out a form for a title replacement $25, the seller and buyer fill out a form as the bill of sale and a new title will be mailed to the new owner. The new owner will be given a temporary title in the spot.

[silverstreak]

I stopped by the local tag and title shop today and learned there's a title and registration currently issued to the VIN I found on the frame as well. So that makes 3 trucks involved in this circus...

[body bolt]

Oh sh...

[Sheepdip]

I think I'd be getting a hold of the person that sold you the truck for a refund or make them straighten out the cluster. But that's just me....

[indymachinist]

Is it possible to return the truck to the seller and get your money back? This doesn’t seem like it’s going in a good direction.

[silverstreak]

The seller found that an out of state title was issued to the truck soon after he purchased it 8 years ago. He went to the local tag and title company and got it issued back in his name (which is the one I have in my possession). A month or so after he got it corrected, one was reissued back in the other state again. An agent from the state DOT and title fraud is coming by next week to check out the truck.

[Lokin4AReason]

Ouch

Hope all will be resolved quickly

[silverstreak]

I'm happy to report there has been a positive outcome in this situation. The inspector / fraud agent has determined the VIN on the frame, glove box door and blue door sticker (I found after rubbing off the primer with thinner) is the correct VIN for this truck and a new title has been issued in my name. Once I get it running, I have to take it to the state MVA headquarters so they can affix a corrected VIN tag to the cab and remove the current one. Thanks to all who offered their knowledge and advice.

[jocko]

that's good news. So this must mean they determined the metal VIN tag was invalid (along with how it was recorded on the seller's title)? I may have missed it above - did the VIN plate have rosette rivets attaching it to the cab?
Makes ya wonder where your original VIN tag is today...

[jumpsoffrock]

Wow I wonder that's the deal with other person on the other end, with your VIN on a fake truck or whatever.

[Steeveedee]

A thing that was pointed out to me in the SPID thread after I posted mine was that one shouldn't show the VIN, because scamsters can use it for future scams. I responded that I have attorneys on retainer, but in general, that advice was sound.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by jocko

I'm kinda wondering if the frame is stamped based on the SPID traveling down the assembly line with it (before it meets Mr. Cab) - that could be why those two match. But I kinda assumed the Build Sheet is what traveled down the line with the frame to which everything else got added.

Calling Keith! Calling Keith! someone send up the bat signal for Keith!! I bet he knows what drove what when it came to VINs.

Sorry to be joining late. I had the bat signal on "vibrate" here on my end.

The VIN is established before the build starts, and is printed onto the build sheet/build manifest and SPID label.

The partial VIN is stamped on the frame after "frame turn over" but before body drop (usually around the same area as when the brake lines are installed and such).

After body drop the guy that installs the floor shifters (and cab high running lights) grabs the (preprinted) SPID off of a roll where they have been printed in sequence, sticks it to his shirt and walks over to the truck where at some point during his job cycle he sticks it to the glovebox.

So if all goes well the partial VIN on the frame, the SPID and the metal tag should all match.

The only allowance for error would be if you get out of sequence, usually just by one digit, or if you accidentally stamp a GMC VIN on a Chevy (or vice versa). Typically this affects more than one vehicle and creates quite a mess as you try to resolve it while the line continues to run. The repair/inspection ticket has the VIN on it and would be the gold source all the other VINs would need to match.

But ideally that is caught by a repairman or inspector before it goes too far and (ideally) they all are repaired before leaving the plant.

K

[1967GMCC20]

I know people make VIN tags, Titles. and other nefarious things.
I can never buy a restored truck/car.

[silverstreak]

jocko - the VIN plate is currently registered to another truck in another state, so they should be good to go. Mine is now registered as what is on the frame and SPID and they lost track of that after the early 1980's. The rivets look to be original, but the entire plate is covered in primer, so it's hard to tell.
Keith - thanks for the insight. The two VIN numbers are an exact match except are off by the 4th digit, one's a 5 and one's a 6. I had to get a magnifying glass to verify it on the VIN plate. Hopefully this is a done deal. I could have just parted the thing out, but I'm glad I stayed in the fight and keep another one of these old trucks on the road.