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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Walker, LA
Posts: 2,925
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Vortec heads
Posted this in the engine forum also.
There is a set of vortec heads on ebay for sale that should be avoided. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33617 I was reading an article from Chevy High Performance and they said the heads with the casting # 10239906 should be avoided. Just a heads up so nobody wastes their money. Link to article http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/
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Gary -1986 SWB: lowered 4/6, SOLD!!! -Best 1/4 mile: 14.51 @ 91.01 MPH -2001 Pewter Tahoe, billet grill, Corsa Sport Cat-back, K&N FIPK SOLD!!! -2004 Z-71 Extended cab with a flowmaster, BDS 6.5", 3" BL, 35x12.5x18 Trail Grapplers on Pro-Comp 18x9 wheels |
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#2 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,720
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Sorry, but your getting the dreaded
![]() They took that article back a couple mags later, saying "sorry they really are all the same" Because they are ![]()
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-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#3 |
Gentleman Jim Driver
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Poulsbo, WA
Posts: 1,550
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Not only about the valve seats, but in that article they say you can only safely run .420 to .430 lift with stock vortec valve springs/guides. Now does that really make sense when the GMPP 330 hp crate engine runs .460" lift with stock vortecs? I don't think so. GMPP also says it's safe to run up to .475" lift with stock springs. They took that back too a couple months after they initially published the article you linked to.
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Joe '75 GMC Gentleman Jim '84 Chev C10 Short Wide - Super duper plain (manual steering, manual brakes, no dome light, no cig lighter) '85 Chev C10 Short Wide - Super plain Vortec 4.8 4L60E trans also: '81 K30, '83 C30 Crew Dually, '84 M1028 CUCV, '85 M1009 CUCV, another '85 C10 SWB, '89 R3500 Flatbed |
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#4 |
Trucker.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,364
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Lowrider had pretty much the same write up last month.
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#5 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Walker, LA
Posts: 2,925
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Quote:
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Gary -1986 SWB: lowered 4/6, SOLD!!! -Best 1/4 mile: 14.51 @ 91.01 MPH -2001 Pewter Tahoe, billet grill, Corsa Sport Cat-back, K&N FIPK SOLD!!! -2004 Z-71 Extended cab with a flowmaster, BDS 6.5", 3" BL, 35x12.5x18 Trail Grapplers on Pro-Comp 18x9 wheels |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Walker, LA
Posts: 2,925
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OK new question. What is a head assembly? Does that include the rocker arms? or just the valves and springs?
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Gary -1986 SWB: lowered 4/6, SOLD!!! -Best 1/4 mile: 14.51 @ 91.01 MPH -2001 Pewter Tahoe, billet grill, Corsa Sport Cat-back, K&N FIPK SOLD!!! -2004 Z-71 Extended cab with a flowmaster, BDS 6.5", 3" BL, 35x12.5x18 Trail Grapplers on Pro-Comp 18x9 wheels |
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#7 |
Available for Adoption
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lubbock Tx
Posts: 177
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Normally they don't come with rockers. Usually complete head assemblies will come with valves, springs, collars, keeps etc....but not always...Usually, they will say "bare" if they don't come with valves etc.....
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1983 C10 SWB ![]() ![]() |
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#8 |
You get what you pay for
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cherryville, NC
Posts: 4,798
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I'm pretty sure that GMPP upgrades the springs on the Vortecs when installing them on the crate engines. Not sure. Could be wrong, but I think I'm right. Personlly, I wouldn't even think of running stock Vortecs on a performance engine. What's the point? Sure, it will increase the hp over your old smog heads, but there is so much more to be had with just a little bit of money and work. If I'm going to the trouble to upgrade heads, I sure want to get all I can out of them.
I read somwhere before what the difference was in the two castings, or more importantly why they have different casting numbers, but I can't remember where I seen or what it said. It was a very long time ago.
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Mike 1985 Chevy C-10 |
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#9 |
Gentleman Jim Driver
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Poulsbo, WA
Posts: 1,550
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Well, I guess the question here is what is a "performance engine". I've built two engines using vortec heads in the last six or so years.
The first engine was just to replace the goodwrench engine in my 84 that already had 140k on it (the truck now sits at 480k miles). I bought a rebuilt shortblock from a place in California. I was in Connecticut at the time and machine shop prices were outrageous. It was cheaper to buy vortec heads than have my old Goodwrench engine heads rebuilt. The fact that I ended up with 75 or more hp was a bonus. The last engine I built (for my 86) I had another Goodwrench block bored, torque plate honed, zero decked, crank micropolished and balanced with forged pistons etc etc. I used a set of vortec heads and an RPM air gap intake. I figure I'm making at least the 330 hp that GM makes with their crate engine and hopefully a little more. After paying the bills for than engine, I wouldn't do that again, I'd go buy the crate version. It would be cheaper and have a warranty. Anyhow, vortec heads are better than any other $500/pair complete head. The possible additional cost of the required intake and rockers still makes them tough to beat in performance per dollar for a rebuilt head. You'd have to spend a few hundred dollars more to get the same or more performance from other aftermarket heads. I'd call that more than just a little bit of money.
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Joe '75 GMC Gentleman Jim '84 Chev C10 Short Wide - Super duper plain (manual steering, manual brakes, no dome light, no cig lighter) '85 Chev C10 Short Wide - Super plain Vortec 4.8 4L60E trans also: '81 K30, '83 C30 Crew Dually, '84 M1028 CUCV, '85 M1009 CUCV, another '85 C10 SWB, '89 R3500 Flatbed |
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#10 | |
Trucker.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,364
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Quote:
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#11 |
Slots go on anything!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,957
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you can buy the new vortec heads upgraded by Scoggin Dickey with Z28 springs, all bolts and necessary gaskets, and performer intake for $900 on their website. Pretty solid deal to me.
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1974 Jimmy- 5.3/4L80e/NP241 |
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#12 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,720
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The problem with vortecs and valve lift is not the springs, but the valve guide. Its too tall and hits the retainer or inner dampner. I highly doubt GM machines down all vortec heads for the .460" 330hp motor or the ramjet 350 which also uses stock vortecs and has .481" with the stock 1.6 rocker arms.
Vortec heads are great for mild performance engines, in other words under 500hp. With about 4hrs worth of porting they can flow better then stock fastburn heads while retaining 170cc intakes [say hello to gobs of torque along with your HP]
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-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#13 |
You get what you pay for
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cherryville, NC
Posts: 4,798
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I wasn't talking about putting a little more in another set of heads, but putting it in the Vortecs. They are just a little weak on the exhaust side. And no Tom, they don't need 4 hours of work. And they are only good up to about 400 hp or so. After this, there are much better heads. If you are after 450 to 500 hp, do it right with a set of aftermarket heads.
Now, before everyone jumps on me, I think Vortecs are a great head. A little thin in the casting department, but so are any other late model stock head. Just don't ever let an engine with a set of Vortecs overheat. What I meant by performance engine is one you are building for max power on a budget. With a couple hundred more bucks, you could have gained 125 hp or more. |
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#14 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,686
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906s are the ones that everyone around here looks for.
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#15 | |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 6,400
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Quote:
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#16 |
You get what you pay for
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cherryville, NC
Posts: 4,798
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I'm no dumbass. I know not to let any engine overheat.
![]() Where do you come up with these wisecracks. I think you been hanging around Tim too much. You're starting to act just like him. :p I meant most of the older heads would take heat and at the most warp. Vortecs will crack if they get too hot. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Shreveport LA
Posts: 3,170
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I thought they said the "bad" Vortec heads with the hard exhaust seat inserts were found in some of the heavy-duty trucks.
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#18 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 6,400
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well, with the overheating issues, since the Vortecs are a newer head, they probably havent been abused like the older thin casting heads. you can probably get away with overheating a thin casting a few times before it will crack, whereas a 20 year old head may crack the first time you overheat it.
i also noticed when reading through one of your previous posts you mentioned GMPP upgrading the springs. the heads are identical to the factory units, and even carry the same part number. so the GMPP heads carry the same max lift figure as the assembly line units. |
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#19 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,686
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I gotta Agree the vortechs being computer designed Are bound to be better than something that was prolly mocked up in clay
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#20 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Walker, LA
Posts: 2,925
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Quote:
__________________
Gary -1986 SWB: lowered 4/6, SOLD!!! -Best 1/4 mile: 14.51 @ 91.01 MPH -2001 Pewter Tahoe, billet grill, Corsa Sport Cat-back, K&N FIPK SOLD!!! -2004 Z-71 Extended cab with a flowmaster, BDS 6.5", 3" BL, 35x12.5x18 Trail Grapplers on Pro-Comp 18x9 wheels |
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