Front end swap, again

[MS66]

Hey C10 brothers. Just got an original '68 long bed about 5 weeks ago, Drug it out of the woods, then thrashed on it for 5 weeks to get it ready to go to Cruising the Coast last week. Well, I made it work! I had a blast in it. Now for the 64 dollar question: What is the downside to swapping in the complete front end from an '84 parts truck that I got with this truck?

I've read a few threads on DB, and PS swaps, read so many that I can't remember them all. Some folks here say not to use the late model parts, some do. The '84 truck is at my disposal, all the parts are there, except the steering column. I really see no reason not to use them being that the ball joints, tie rod ends and steering components are beefier than the factory '68 parts. Modern bushings, and availability has to be a plus here.
All you seasoned Action Series guys feel free to chime in with any solid advice for me. I'm ready for some DB, and PS. My old hands and wrists don't particularly like the 6 round manual steering box in this thing... lol.
On another note, how do the PS boxes in the '71, and '72 C10s compare to the later PS boxes in the '80s square body trucks. I know the late model used metric line nuts.
Thanks for any input.

[hewittca]

I don't have much input on swapping out to the squarebody suspension since I always stick with the 67-72 components. My current truck is a '72 and that makes thing easier for me since it already has disk brakes. For you, swapping to the later stuff is definitely enticing since you get disks along with it. I would just make sure to consider everything that will need to be replaced anyway to bring that front end up to spec (pads, rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.) and are you really saving anything over buying an all new disk brake swap kit. Of course, if you're into lowering the truck then it's a good time to go ahead and get drop spindles as well. Anyway, I really hit reply to comment on the steering upgrade. DO IT! When I first built my truck I thought I could live with manual steering. After a month of driving my completed truck I knew I had made a big mistake, especially considering my suspension mods that made the steering even more of a chore. I swapped my steering over to a mid 80s squarebody steering box, which has the metric o-ring fittings and variable ratio. I went with the metric version because this was coupled with the steering pump on my LS swap. 70's versions of this box are still standard flare fitting style. Overall, I'm happy with this box. The variable ratio is a bit funky at first, but it is a nice feature when you get used to it. Compared to my old '68 that had power steering, this squarebody box is a little stiffer and less turns lock to lock. It feels right in a truck built for cruising. The '68 box was super light and provided almost no road feel. It wasn't bad, it just didn't provide quite the confidence in control that the later steering box does. Hope that helps!

[cj847]

Here is the info for virtually every swap.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=4450757

[MS66]

Originally Posted by hewittca

I don't have much input on swapping out to the squarebody suspension since I always stick with the 67-72 components. My current truck is a '72 and that makes thing easier for me since it already has disk brakes. For you, swapping to the later stuff is definitely enticing since you get disks along with it. I would just make sure to consider everything that will need to be replaced anyway to bring that front end up to spec (pads, rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.) and are you really saving anything over buying an all new disk brake swap kit. Of course, if you're into lowering the truck then it's a good time to go ahead and get drop spindles as well. Anyway, I really hit reply to comment on the steering upgrade. DO IT! When I first built my truck I thought I could live with manual steering. After a month of driving my completed truck I knew I had made a big mistake, especially considering my suspension mods that made the steering even more of a chore. I swapped my steering over to a mid 80s squarebody steering box, which has the metric o-ring fittings and variable ratio. I went with the metric version because this was coupled with the steering pump on my LS swap. 70's versions of this box are still standard flare fitting style. Overall, I'm happy with this box. The variable ratio is a bit funky at first, but it is a nice feature when you get used to it. Compared to my old '68 that had power steering, this squarebody box is a little stiffer and less turns lock to lock. It feels right in a truck built for cruising. The '68 box was super light and provided almost no road feel. It wasn't bad, it just didn't provide quite the confidence in control that the later steering box does. Hope that helps!

Thanks buddy. I agree. I own and drive two different square bodies weekly. I like the feel of the steering boxes and the way they handle. The sway bars on the squares and vans are substantially larger than the early bars too, making a YUGE difference in handling. That's the main reason I want to swap the '68 over to the later model front end parts is because it is all beefier.

Originally Posted by cj847

Here is the info for virtually every swap.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=4450757

Thanks. That is one that I've read through a few times over the years. I've been here a while, just never posted. My son and I are "supposed" to be doing this to a '66. He lost interest in the project years ago when the smell of burned gas and perfume hit him. I got tired of waiting for him to come back around so I bought myself a truck to play with. I have two grandchildren now... lol.

[Palf70Step]

MY older 70, I just took the spindles, tie rod arms, cross link, idler arm and power steering box/pitman arm off the newer truck and bolted it to the older truck with new 83 upper and lower ball joints. Made/moved connectors for brake line hoses and installed new 83 brake hoses.

Since I was adding new components, I didn't feel like unbolting the cross members, do the hole drilling, bolt in the new cross member, then tear it all down for new suspension components. I had all the parts ahead of time and it took me day and half to move and have everything on the older truck.

I think the idler arm is the same for manual and power steering, but at the time I did mine I did not know, so I got all the stuff of the 83. It also made it easier to remember all the front end parts are 83 when I need to replace a part.

[MikeB]

I know you can bolt-in a 71-72 C10 front cross member into a 67-70, including suspension, brakes, and steering. But I don't think you can bolt-in an entire 73-up cross member.

My 69 has steering (spindle to spindle) and brakes from an 85 C10. The power steering box and Pitman arm are standard 69-72 C10.

Please note than some years of square bodies had 1" thick front rotors, and others had 1.25". The calipers and inner wheel bearings are different, too, but pads are the same. The rear brake shoe width was also different. Codes for those brake systems were JB3 and JB5.

[halfstep]

Another thing to consider while you are in that area is MOTOR MOUNTS.
The clamshell motor mounts on the square body crossmember are a far better design and MUCH easier to deal with than the 67-72 style. You can buy conversion stands and mounts as well.

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by MikeB

I know you can bolt-in a 71-72 C10 front cross member into a 67-70, including suspension, brakes, and steering. But I don't think you can bolt-in an entire 73-up cross member.

My 69 has steering (spindle to spindle) and brakes from an 85 C10. The power steering box and Pitman arm are standard 69-72 C10.

Please note than some years of square bodies had 1" thick front rotors, and others had 1.25". The calipers and inner wheel bearings are different, too, but pads are the same. The rear brake shoe width was also different. Codes for those brake systems were JB3 and JB5.

A 73 up crossmember will bolt in if you drill one hole & slot one existing hole on either side.

[cwcarpenter98]

Regarding the control arms, I've now had a truck with both that I've fully rebuilt. I came real close to swapping my 81 from the rubber bushing control arms to the 63-72 steel bushing arms. I didn't because I had already bought all the parts, but man, that was a struggle trying to replace those bushings without the GM c-clamp tool that was used back when the trucks were new.

The 63-72 bushings are just unscrew, remove, replace. 73-87 is hammer, drill, sawzall, try not to bend arms too much, press in new, fight to make sure it's seated. Maybe if I had a shop press it would've been easier, but I didn't, so I used what I had available. Got it done, but took at least double the time as the 63-72 ones.

[Palf70Step]

Older arm bushing are grease-able, 73 and newer are not. THat is one reason I stayed with the older style.

[lolife99]

The advantage of bolting in a complete 73-87 crossmember assembly USE TO BE a good idea when you could find good donor parts.
Now all the 73-87 stuff is wore out.
Plus if you rebuild everything BEFORE THE INSTALL, what parts are you going to actually re-use?
Spindles and centerlink are the only non wear items.
If you add drop spindles, then you’re down to just the centerlink.

You should really replace everything with new.
Rotors, calipers, bearings, inner and outer tie rods, idler arm, balljoints, and control arm bushings at a minimum.

With the invention of conversion spindles for the 63-70 trucks, there’s really no need to use 73-87 crossmembers.
Just my opinion.

[LockDoc]

-
If you do decide to use the later cross member here are some pictures of the holes that need to be modified..... You have to redrill one hole in the frame on each side and enlarge another one. (see pics) other than that it is a bolt in. The hole that has to be re-drilled can be done on the outside of the frame after the crossmember is in but the one that has to be enlarged has to be done before.

LockDoc

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Palf70Step

Older arm bushing are grease-able, 73 and newer are not.

I remember when I got my 69 C10 back in 1989 and tried to buy bushings when I decided I was going to rebuild the front end. A guy at a parts store said the truck doesn't use bushings, and brought out new threaded shafts, end caps, and dust boots. No bushings at all! The original parts were probably still OK after ~150K miles, but I replaced them anyway. EZ-Peezy.

Years later I changed the bushings on an 82 C10. Removing the old ones was one of the biggest PITA projects I ever did. It's been a while, but I remember using a drill, a sledgehammer, and a drift.

[Palf70Step]

I never knew that. Never had to takemine apart. They were smooth and quiter than the later models.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Palf70Step

I never knew that. Never had to take mine apart. They were smooth and quieter than the later models.

Ironic, because GM probably went to rubber bushings because they wanted a smoother ride for the new square body trucks.

[MS66]

Thanks for all the input. Good points on both sides. I should say this much about what my intentions are on the swap was to leave the '68 cradle in the truck while swapping to the later parts. This truck is still nice and tight, the main thing I need right away is PS. In just under 1k miles that I've put on the truck in the last 5 weeks the manual box has developed more slack and has spooge leaking out of the steering shaft above the pitman arm. I'm recovering from a broken wrist, the effort to maneuver this beast is blowing my pain level off the chart. Got to face it, just not that tough young kid any more. This truck is the project I "grabbed" to work my hand back into shape after surgery.... Hand me that BA hammer!!

MikeB, yessir, much less road noise and transfer into the cab for sure. I can tell that right off on the roads I drive both the Action Series and the square body on back to back. I'm not gonna lie, I like the feel and quiet ride of a good square body. With all the input on keeping the original suspension, I might keep it in there, dunno yet. I'm getting to the point that I like quiet rides. BTW, I still have my '81 lwb Silverado. Favorite truck of all time, but this '68 is becoming a good one to me. I like it much better than the '83 swb Silverado.

[MikeB]

The swap to power steering was an easy one for me back in the day. I actually used junkyard parts from a 71-72 for everything, and they lasted me 30 years, even the pump and pressure hose! A couple years ago, I had my box rebuilt by AGR in Fort Worth, and also bought their pump. Didn't get the quick ratio version, but I'm thinking about having them do it.

Nice looking square body! I used to have an 82, and after liberal amounts of sound deadener, it was very quiet inside, at least up to 65-70mph.

[MS66]

Originally Posted by MikeB

The swap to power steering was an easy one for me back in the day. I actually used junkyard parts from a 71-72 for everything, and they lasted me 30 years, even the pump and pressure hose! A couple years ago, I had my box rebuilt by AGR in Fort Worth, and also bought their pump. Didn't get the quick ratio version, but I'm thinking about having them do it.

Nice looking square body! I used to have an 82, and after liberal amounts of sound deadener, it was very quiet inside, at least up to 65-70mph.

Thanks, I kind of like it. It's still pretty much original except for the distributor, and what appears to be an Earle Schieb paint job from 25 years ago. Bought it from the son of an 83 year old friend after he passed.

On the steering sector swap you did to your '69, do you remember swapping the lower section of the steering shaft on the column? I have located two '71/'72 parts trucks both with PS, one still has the column in it. Will I need the lower shaft?
I'd like to know the differences between the variable ratio box on my '84 parts truck compared to what would be on either of these two Action Series trucks. He never gave me a price on buying a steering box, but I feel like I'm going to be better off using the box off the '84 for a better ratio. I know it's an o-ring style metric fitting, I will have to change the fitting on the pump to match it.
On another note, I have found the unicorn PS pump and bracket for the non-integrated 250, so I'm halfway there on that part of the swap.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by MS66

On the steering sector swap you did to your '69, do you remember swapping the lower section of the steering shaft on the column? I have located two '71/'72 parts trucks both with PS, one still has the column in it. Will I need the lower shaft?

I don't think I did anything to the shaft, but, man, that was around 1989-1990. In fact, when I shortened the column a couple years ago, the plastic that holds the shafts together was still in place, and I had to drill it out.

Also, seems like I remember reading on this forum somewhere that 67-68 columns were different than 69-72, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Getter-Done]

Here is an Old thread about the steering shaft.

Link: https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...teering+column

[Palf70Step]

On my 70, I did not change the shaft. Just bolted ot up to the pwrsteering box. Not sure if itbwould be same on 67/68 since yhey had different setups. Now on my 64, I unbolted original column and one piece shadt, ond bolted ina 69 column Nd shaft to the 72 power steering box.

[RichardJ]

From a post above.
>>are you really saving anything over buying an all new disk brake swap kit.<<

If you have read old threads about using Kits and '71 and '72 parts, you will have read that they all have one problem in common. They can't find the right length flex hoses. The routing for the drum lines is simply not compatible with disc calipers.

My experience is with '76 C30 SRW parts used on my '67 C20. With the combination valve mounted in front under the radiator, all the factory lines and hoses basically bolted in place. The hole in the frame where the solid line connects to the flex line was already there. I had to drill it to a larger size. The cross member holes were as mentioned by others above. I am making the assumption that C10 conversion is the same and just as easy.
If I need any replacement part for anything on the front end, I know it's for '76. Not for maybe some aftermarket only combination.

[ZEKE68]

I bolted 73-87 control arms onto my 68, and they fit right up. I used 73-87 lowered spindles with them. There are two issues to point out doing this. One is that the drum brake trucks have the brake lines run on the rear side of the front cross member. The later disc brake trucks had the brake lines run on the front side of the front cross member. I had to weld new brake hose brackets to the front of my 68 cross member to use the factory style lines and hoses. The second issue is that the 73-87 spindles use a different size tie rod end taper, so you have to use an adaptor style tie rod link with different threads in each end. If you used the later cross member and cross link, you may not have to have the adaptor link. If you are going to use a 1969 up saginaw power steering unit, you need to change out the steering column to a 1969 up column. The 68 column won't work with the saginaw box.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by ZEKE68

The second issue is that the 73-87 spindles use a different size tie rod end taper, so you have to use an adaptor style tie rod link with different threads in each end. If you used the later cross member and cross link, you may not have to have the adaptor link. If you are going to use a 1969 up saginaw power steering unit, you need to change out the steering column to a 1969 up column. The 68 column won't work with the saginaw box.

But other than that...

[67 twins]

If you are going to use a 1969 up saginaw power steering unit, you need to change out the steering column to a 1969 up column. The 68 column won't work with the saginaw box.[/QUOTE]

Why? I don't believe this is true. It'll work with a 67 column and aren't 67 & 68 columns the same.