67 C20 with 283 w/3 speed on the floor keeps killing starters.

[BigTopGT]

This has been a ongoing issue since I bought the truck and I'm tired of changing starters.

She's a 67 longbed, 283 with a 3 speed on the floor. (total rat rod)

I assume it's these Hooker headers killing them, but the last stater lasted over a year, made no unusual sounds when starting, but from one drive to the next, it was dead.

So, I replaced it in the parking lot where it died and it started with the first hit of the key.

Yesterday, I drove the truck 800 miles (South Florida to central North Carolina), but at the first refueling stop (200 miles), the brand new starter was dead.

Thankfully, that gas station was on the only downward slope in all of Florida, so I pop started it and simply never shut it off until I got where I was going.

Now it's time for a fresh starter and I'm assuming I need to go high-torque mini starter. (I'll upgrade to the painless starter hot wire, too)

Before I go catalog hopping can anyone recommend a mini-starter that's not going to break the bank, but get the job for for more than 200 miles?

It also keeps developing a miss, no matter what I do, but that's a different discussion for a separate thread. 😁

Thanks, gang!

[54blackhornet]

I installed a DB Electric mini starter with excellent results. Crazy sound but they get the job done…

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by 54blackhornet

I installed a DB Electric mini starter with excellent results. Crazy sound but they get the job done…

I just checked their site and don't see any listing's for a 67 C10.

Any tips (or a link) for finding one to fit the 283 in mine?

[dagnabbitt]

If it is missing and the engine compartment is overly hot might be timing. But that's another thread.

I'd look at one of these starter heat shields, might be worth it.

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by dagnabbitt

If it is missing and the engine compartment is overly hot might be timing. But that's another thread.

I'd look at one of these starter heat shields, might be worth it.

Thanks, man.

It ran better than ever after my MSD took a crap and I swapped from the MSD/Mallory Unilite dizzy to a fresh HEI setup, but as I put some miles on it, it ran rougher and rougher.

Valve seals leaking and fouling plugs, maybe?

[dmjlambert]

I stopped buying parts that are not lifetime warranty. The car parts store will have a variety to choose from, and usually one of them will be the lifetime warranty one. It may be just my imagination, but it seems usually to make a difference in how often I change the parts. The starter I have is my original, so I don't have a warranty on it. My engine builder rebuilt it with new solenoid and brushes, so I suppose I will try that same rebuild on this one if it ever gives up, and then resort to buying a lifetime warranty one after that. Incidentally, the last time I thought I had a bad starter it was actually a repair type battery terminal causing the problem. Replaced the battery cable with one that has proper ends. I'll never use that clamp-on repair type of battery terminal again, I don't believe in them.

[custom10nut]

You’re right on the suspicion of the headers being the problem.
The heat soak from the Collector absolutely cooks the starter motor, in short order.
I’d bet I put no less than six starters on mine within a two year period, and I don’t use the truck for a DD.
I figured out the problem when it failed to start (when stopping for gas) and I crawled under-to Check the wire connections.
I grabbed the starter motor, and blistered my hand, because it was so hot.
My fix for the Problem was this:
I fabricated ahead shield and attached it to the header, and I also installed a Starter Heat Shield Blanket, which so far has done its job.
And are 100% correct with not buying the Remanufactured starters, as they a an absolute waste of time.
Factory AC Delco is the way to go. Lifetime Warranty

[54blackhornet]

I would contact them direct.

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by custom10nut

You’re right on the suspicion of the headers being the problem.

The heat soak from the Collector absolutely cooks the starter motor, in short order.

I’d bet I put no less than six starters on mine within a two year period, and I don’t use the truck for a DD.

I figured out the problem when it failed to start (when stopping for gas) and I crawled underto Check the wire connections.

I grabbed the starter motor, and blistered my hand, because it was so hot.

My fix for the Problem was this:

I fabricated ahead shield and attached it to the header, and I also installed a Starter Heat Shield Blanket, which so far has done its job.

And are 100% correct with not buying the Remanufactured starters, as they a an absolute waste of time.

Factory AC Delco is the way to go. Lifetime Warranty

Thanks for the advice and fabricating a heat shield on the header side is a great idea. (any pics of your setup?)

This 67 and my 71 both had the same issue and in the 71, I switched over to a high torque mini from Summit, a set of Headman mid-lengths, and a painless dedicated hot wire kit to isolate the power circuit a little more than a year ago.

So far, so good with the 71, but if I can get a starter to live in the 67 without having to replace the headers, I'd prefer it.

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

I stopped buying parts that are not lifetime warranty. The car parts store will have a variety to choose from, and usually one of them will be the lifetime warranty one. It may be just my imagination, but it seems usually to make a difference in how often I change the parts. The starter I have is my original, so I don't have a warranty on it. My engine builder rebuilt it with new solenoid and brushes, so I suppose I will try that same rebuild on this one if it ever gives up, and then resort to buying a lifetime warranty one after that. Incidentally, the last time I thought I had a bad starter it was actually a repair type battery terminal causing the problem. Replaced the battery cable with one that has proper ends. I'll never use that clamp-on repair type of battery terminal again, I don't believe in them.

Here's what I used on the other truck. (I just ordered one for this truck, too)

[chevmn]

Some (not all) of the lifetime warranty parts are the same part, but you pay extra for the warranty. Might ask. I sort of ran into that by accident. In my instance I noticed the part number was same, except for a letter prefix or suffix, so I asked the difference aside from price, and the person at the counter said they pull the same part.

Example...
Lifetime Starter...
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...=starter&pos=0
1 Year Warranty....
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...=starter&pos=1

The proof would be to ask counter person to pull one of each to look at.

Also, might check into the mini starters used on mid 90's trucks from the factory. I kept having issues with the original starter on my 72 big block truck, and had heard about using the smaller factory type starter, so I ordered a new starter for a late 90's 454 suburban. Fits great, much easier to install due to size/weight, and spins it over much better. Jury is out on how it holds up, but so far I like it, and since I won't be daily driving it, my guess is it will hold up as long as I do, if not longer. Not sure if there is one to fit your application, but the one I purchased from Rock Auto was about $100 with shipping, which is not out of line with some rebuilts, and I have heard horror stories about "rebuilts", even to the point that some rebuilders bench test cores, and if they pass initial testing, they are cleaned, painted, and boxed (for us to replace again soon).

As I say, not positive of this, but makes a lot of sense that they would sell identical parts, but charge extra for the warranty.

[Steeveedee]

I put a mini starter on my truck many moons ago. It took care of most of the failing to start when hot, The rest came down to getting the cooling system under control. Biggest effect on the cooling system was installing a high-flow thermostat.

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

I put a mini starter on my truck many moons ago. It took care of most of the failing to start when hot, The rest came down to getting the cooling system under control. Biggest effect on the cooling system was installing a high-flow thermostat.

I just installed a fresh aluminum radiator and the truck runs around 180°.

On a related note: the starter in the truck now has three bolys that hold it to the truck.

Two face to the rear, one to the front.

A lot of the mini starters I see have bolts that go up into the block... Is this 283 set up to accept both bolt configurations or do I need one to match the current setup?

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by chevmn

Also, might check into the mini starters used on mid 90's trucks from the factory. I kept having issues with the original starter on my 72 big block truck, and had heard about using the smaller factory type starter, so I ordered a new starter for a late 90's 454 suburban. Fits great, much easier to install due to size/weight, and spins it over much better. Jury is out on how it holds up, but so far I like it, and since I won't be daily driving it, my guess is it will hold up as long as I do, if not longer. Not sure if there is one to fit your application, but the one I purchased from Rock Auto was about $100 with shipping, which is not out of line with some rebuilts, and I have heard horror stories about "rebuilts", even to the point that some rebuilders bench test cores, and if they pass initial testing, they are cleaned, painted, and boxed (for us to replace again soon).

As I say, not positive of this, but makes a lot of sense that they would sell identical parts, but charge extra for the warranty.

I previously ran this starter:

[franken]

What did testing/checks of the failed starters chow why they failed?

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by BigTopGT

I just installed a fresh aluminum radiator and the truck runs around 180°.

On a related note: the starter in the truck now has three bolys that hold it to the truck.

Two face to the rear, one to the front.

A lot of the mini starters I see have bolts that go up into the block... Is this 283 set up to accept both bolt configurations or do I need one to match the current setup?

Is your truck a stick shift with the starter bolted to the bell housing instead of to the bottom of the block? That's just a 6-cylinder engine thing, right? Bolts facing front or rear sounds like a 6-cylinder deal.

[KQQL IT]

My 68 had corrosion in actual cable. Would drop to 7-8 volts at the starter lug if it would start.
New cables and it drops to 10.5-11volts

[RustyPile]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Is your truck a stick shift with the starter bolted to the bell housing instead of to the bottom of the block? That's just a 6-cylinder engine thing, right? Bolts facing front or rear sounds like a 6-cylinder deal.

From the beginning (I don't know the actual year) All Chevrolet engines, I6 and V8, had the starter bolted to the bell housing through 1961.. 1962 passenger car was the year for block mounted starters for the V8. Trucks didn't get 'em until '73. The 230/250 CID I6 came out in 1962 and was the advent of the block mounted starter for I6s...

[BigTopGT]

Originally Posted by franken

What did testing/checks of the failed starters chow why they failed?

You know, I don't think they've ever checked a single one. (and between the 2 trucks, I'm sure I've had 10 of them go back)

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Is your truck a stick shift with the starter bolted to the bell housing instead of to the bottom of the block? That's just a 6-cylinder engine thing, right? Bolts facing front or rear sounds like a 6-cylinder deal.

I can't guarantee this 283 is the original engine, but the starter definitely bolts front to rear.

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

My 68 had corrosion in actual cable. Would drop to 7-8 volts at the starter lug if it would start.
New cables and it drops to 10.5-11volts

The painless wire upgrade is top of my list, for sure.

[72c20customcamper]

I’ve had numerous problems with rebuilt starters from all the auto part stores. What good is a lifetime warranty when you have to replace it every few months . I buy new Powermasters for all my trucks and my cars . My Chevelle and my 72 eat the rebuilds up all the time . The Chevelle hasn’t given me a problem in over two years . The 72 with factory exhaust eat the rebuilds up to the tune of one or two a year I drive that truck a lot . I put a Powermaster on it and it’s been fine for about the same time as the Chevelle . I am changing the Flexplate on the 72 as two or three teeth are broken . I’m changing out the starter gear because it’s a little chewed up .

The Chevelle is a 496 with headers so heat was a problem but the Powermaster has held up well with no heat shield

[BigTopGT]

In looking for a replacement, the hardest part is finding a mini-starter that's a bellhousing mount, not a block mount. (I'm assuming the 283 doesn't have block mounting provisions)

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by BigTopGT

In looking for a replacement, the hardest part is finding a mini-starter that's a bellhousing mount, not a block mount. (I'm assuming the 283 doesn't have block mounting provisions)

I'd take a look at the block. I'd be willing to bet it does. I have a total of five 283s around here, 4 are truck blocks. They all have starter mounting holes in the block.

[PbFut]

Is it the starter or the solenoid? Most often when I cook a starter from header heat, a solenoid swap would fix it. It is why the hot shot kit can fix the issue since it replaces the relay function in the solenoid. Summit has starter wraps that are easy to place over the area needing protection. Just be careful as it will conduct electricity and short your connections. Also wrapping the header helps a lot.

[chevmn]

Originally Posted by 67 twins

I'd take a look at the block. I'd be willing to bet it does. I have a total of five 283s around here, 4 are truck blocks. They all have starter mounting holes in the block.

Agree with 67 twins...If you can confirm you have block mounting holes, and check tooth count on flywheel (might differ), you might be able to order one of the mini starters off Rock Auto. check starter for 96 C1500 with 350. You would be well under $100 with shipping. But, I would do some checking to make sure, as with Rock Auto return is not so good. If you go with one of those, also order the starter mounting bolts obviously. I had to buy mounting bolts as the mini starter takes shorter bolts then the factory starter. Also, I believe there was a heat shield on some GM vehicles during that time frame, and between the starter and shield, you should be good to go.

[54blackhornet]

DB Electric starters are not rebuilt. I have bought many and they are very good and excellent customer support. If your block is drilled they have one to fit. Easy installation compared to the original heavy beast. They also included the proper bolts which are knurled and a shim for alignment.