Lifter issue?

[elorenzof]

What would make a push rod/ lifter click like it's out of adjustment, we took the valve cover off and it gets adjusted while the motor is running, gets quiet, then it starts clicking again a few secs later. repeat. New engine. Cylinder 4 sbc exhaust lifter. Break in oil w zinc. Only about 10 miles on it or less.

[Myself]

Pull the lifter and examine the bottom of it.

[1970cstblazer]

Sounds defective. For the last few years, cams and lifters have not been heat treated properly and are soft (usually offshore produced). No amount of proper break in or zinc will prevent failure.

[elorenzof]

thanks guys for your help. we did a compression test for fun, all cylinders were at 150psi. we pulled the intake and the lifter bottom of lifter is wiped out and so is the lobe on the camshaft. See pic attached. All other lifters are perfect on all cylinders. what could of caused this? The engine builder states he used moroso lifters. He says we didnt break in the engine properly so there is no warranty. I'll tell you my procedure to break in the engine, what is yours? I use Maxima high performance break in engine oil that contains zinc, start the engine, let it get to operating temp, raise the rpm to 2k and let it run monitoring all aspects coolant, temp, keep an eye out for leaks, anything wrong like sputtering, etc for 20 mins, take rpm back down to idle, shut off engine, let engine cool, drain oil and change filter using oil w zinc for the 2nd oil change as well. Am i doing this incorrect?

[1970cstblazer]

See post 3!

[geezer#99]

Don’t matter the quality or where they’re made on cam and lifters, idling until warmed up can flatten lobes and lifters.
You need rpm like 12-1500 right away to get the lifters rotating and oil splash to lubricate them.

[MySons68C20]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Don’t matter the quality or where they’re made on cam and lifters, idling until warmed up can flatten lobes and lifters.
You need rpm like 12-1500 right away to get the lifters rotating and oil splash to lubricate them.

Agree with geezer^^^^^

I also wonder if the amount of zinc in the "break in" oils is the same as it was years ago when this was not so much if an issue?

[schovil69]

Originally Posted by elorenzof

... start the engine, let it get to operating temp...

Did you idle the engine until it reached operating temp? What RPM would that have been?

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by schovil69

Did you idle the engine until it reached operating temp? What RPM would that have been?

.

Too low methinks. I understand some folks also use lighter springs (or remove inner springs) during the break in period, especially with more aggressive cams.

My luck in the past was good with flat tappet break ins but these days...roller.

-klb

[geezer#99]

Roller cam is no different.
Still needs higher rpm to oil splash cam and lifters.

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Roller cam is no different.
Still needs higher rpm to oil splash cam and lifters.

.

Yes well...while I don't completely disagree, I did not "break in" my most recent build w/roller cam (BBC, 270 Comp Cam w/matching springs, Howards roller lifters) and all has been fine after a bunch of miles.

With all roller, the chances of wiping a lobe/destroying a lifter are minimal IMO.

YMMV LOL

-klb

[Stanco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbRjAMhCEJk

I found this video on the current high rate of lifter failure interesting. This guy grinds camshafts for a living and says the improper machining on the bottom of the lifters available today is the problem.

[slikside]

Originally Posted by Stanco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbRjAMhCEJk

I found this video on the current high rate of lifter failure interesting. This guy grinds camshafts for a living and says the improper machining on the bottom of the lifters available today is the problem.

What a great video! Very informative. Thanks for posting it.

You know, it's one thing to buy a set of lifters that you want to put into an engine, (ease of inspection before installation) and quite another to purchase a crate engine. What are you getting in today's new crate engines?

On a related note, I recently had my rear differential serviced due to a pinion seal leak that was also replaced. The shop owner is a long-time, old school hot-rodder. I asked him if he's seen a difference in "the old stuff" vs. the new stuff of today (ring gears, pinions, etc..). "Oh yeah, definitely, and not for the better!"

Not to say there is no quality at all today, but certainly the overall reliability of material and machining today is wanting. This video, and informed testimonials certainly bear that out.

[ohboy321]

Originally Posted by schovil69

Did you idle the engine until it reached operating temp? What RPM would that have been?

This is a good question. I installed a COMP Cams flat tappet camshaft a couple of years ago and the instructions said "as soon as the engine fires, bring the RPM up to 2000 to 2500 duration for the first 30 minutes."

[twoskies]

Sorry you're having problems
had similar about a year ago,
1st cam went flat on 1 lobe
2nd cam had defective lifter during breakin
After 2 Flat Tappet cams
Went to Roller cam and lifters, never looked back,(over 3000 miles on it now) yes i did go thru break in even with roller cam, just for peace of mind
even changed to roller rockers after a stamped one broke in half

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by twoskies

Sorry you're having problems
had similar about a year ago,
1st cam went flat on 1 lobe
2nd cam had defective lifter during breakin
After 2 Flat Tappet cams
Went to Roller cam and lifters, never looked back,(over 3000 miles on it now) yes i did go thru break in even with roller cam, just for peace of mind
even changed to roller rockers after a stamped one broke in half

Did you hot tank your motor to get all that fine metal cleaned out?
If not, odds are it’ll cause a problem in the future.

[RustyPile]

I've been doing this modification for a number of years. I fashioned a "J" shaped knife edge cutting tool from a file. On the passenger side of each lifter bore, I cut a tiny groove from about 1/2 inch from the top of the bore to all the way out the bottom. My theory is, oil is sprayed through the gap onto the cam lobe all the time, not just when some drips through the drain back holes in the valley.. I've only lost one cam (flat lobe after about 8K miles) since doing this...

[twoskies]

yes the motor was hot tanked every time

its just money, lol

[tjc]

you may want to try pre-lubing until you see oil on all lifters, you can set all your lifters in a pan of oil over night before you install next time.

[57taskforce]

A few years ago I had a cam go flat on 2 lobes wiping the associated lifters after I had done everything “right”. I took the cam to a good friend who is a well renowned local machinist/local builder. Within a minute or two he had it diagnosed as an improperly hardened cam core. It was soft enough he could lightly gouge it with screw driver with relative ease. He said he’s been seeing it more and more in recent years. A lot of Chinese cam cores and lifters being sold by the famous performance companies here in the US.

[Myself]

I was afraid that's what you'd find. Your builder gave you the standard reply they all give when they don't know. I really feel like the guy from Powell Machine in the video has the right answer. I've had good luck with old stock lifters. They need to be pre 2000's. I've never 'broken' in a cam. Basically put it all together, fire it up, check/fill fluids, start driving. I've also never used special assembly lube. Old school black moly lube on everything. I'm waiting on an IH 345 to finish being machined right now that I will build myself with a hydraulic flat tappet. Also redoing my old 305 shortly with an old stock Crane cam. I don't expect any problems.

[oneshotkyle]

2000rpm as soon as engine is fired up and oil pressure is known. Nothing less nothing more roller lifter are way different and don’t require the same break in procedure. Flat lifters don’t ride dead center on cam lobe. They are offset and do spin on the lobe

[mrein3]

I kinda lost count but I think I've put 5 camshafts in my pickup.
I follow the break-in instructions to a T. I finally threw in the towel and bought a two piece timing chain cover made by Edelbrocken. It makes the inevitable cam swap go easier.

Personally, I think what does them in on my truck is the RPMs on the 70 mph freeways. With stock height, 28" tires, and no overdrive I think the engine simply spins too fast.

I came upon that conclusion when I recalled an event from when I was working my way through college at a local garage. A co-worker had an early 70's Pontiac and took it on a weekend road trip. He had a buddy drive a bit while he took a nap. After an hour or so on the highway he wakes up and the engine sounds funny. He reached over and moved the gear selector from 2nd to drive.

We did a cam shortly after that.

[1970cstblazer]

I'd be switching to roller cams after that many. Has little to nothing to do with the engine cruise speed. The factory cams lasted even with leaded fuel, crappier oil and filters of 55 years ago.

Really makes you really wonder if ANY of the currently available flat cams and lifters are any good?!

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by 1970cstblazer

I'd be switching to roller cams after that many. Has little to nothing to do with the engine cruise speed. The factory cams lasted even with leaded fuel, crappier oil and filters of 55 years ago.

Really makes you really wonder if ANY of the currently available flat cams and lifters are any good?!

A roller is the plan. If fact, over my Christmas break I opened up a 1999 Suburban 350 I got for nothing because it was knocking. Sadly, the knock was a spun bearing so I'm going to need a crankshaft to use it.

Number 1 ate the rod bearing, chewed on it a while, and well, we've all seen that mess.

The good news is I got nothing into this core except a few hours of my time taking it apart. And it came with all the accessories so if a guy wants to swap to a serpentine system, I got all the stuff for that.

But back to the original thread, it does make a guy wonder about flat tappet cams...