Axle and rims help

[Kalums]

I know that it has been addressed many times in this forum and I apologize ahead of time... But I just need a definitive answer that I have not been able to find in this forum or from the internet overlords... So here goes:

I have a 71 GMC K2500, It has the 10 bolt Dana 60, 9/16 studs/lugs (I'm 90% sure) It currently has only the outer rims of an early 90s Ford F350 on the rear axle, which line up perfectly with the front rims.
Question #1) Can I put the inner rims on too? It looks silly to me having the rear drums just hanging in the wind. (personal preference)
Question #2) 2011 and up GM wheels won't work w/o an adapter correct? 8x165.1 (old) to 8x210 (newer)
Question #3) I understand what "hub centric" means but neither of the rims I currently have appear to sit on a lip around the hub like my Expedition. Is this because it is an older style 4x4? Where the hub protrudes significantly farther out?

Thx in advance

[Dashman]

If the wheel fits without interference, I don't see why not mount the inner wheel.

Correct, if the bolt patterns don't match. I wouldn't use an adapter. I saw a SRW truck with a dually adapter break and send the pair of wheels careening down the highway. You could do the fabrication to swap in a later model rear axle. Then you'd have to be creative to get the front to match also (a custom hub, or redrilled bolt pattern).

Correct, earlier model truck hubs are "lug concentric", as most aftermarket wheels are, there's always some gap between the wheel and the hub.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by Dashman

If the wheel fits without interference, I don't see why not mount the inner wheel.

Correct, if the bolt patterns don't match. I wouldn't use an adapter. I saw a SRW truck with a dually adapter break and send the pair of wheels careening down the highway. You could do the fabrication to swap in a later model rear axle. Then you'd have to be creative to get the front to match also (a custom hub, or redrilled bolt pattern).

Correct, earlier model truck hubs are "lug concentric", as most aftermarket wheels are, there's always some gap between the wheel and the hub.

Glad to know I'm not completely insane... 😅 And there is no way I'm using an adapter, I had a bad experience years ago... Some ppl love them and use them, but I'm not one. Thank you for the reply

[dagnabbitt]

I'd be interested in seeing more pics of this truck.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by dagnabbitt

I'd be interested in seeing more pics of this truck.

Tell me what you would like to see... Have camera, will travel/shoot. *grins*

[Dashman]

LockDoc, a member here, rebuilt a nice fleet side with dually wheels. In his build write up, I don't recall what axle he used or what modifications he had to do. You could look up his member name, click on statistics, and then search for his post.

[Sheepdip]

Ford Wheel Hub Centers are bigger than GM. If I'm reading this right you are using Ford wheels on a GM axle? Bolt pattern is the same but wheel centers are bigger than the hub diameter.

[Palf70Step]

Your bed wheel tubs will probably need widened to clear the inner wheels. Most folks I have seen doing it required that. Looks like you have the narrower style rear that came from commercial or flatbed style truck.

[mr48chev]

The Dana 70 Dual wheel rear axle is a bit narrower wms to wms than a single wheel rear axle.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

The Dana 70 Dual wheel rear axle is a bit narrower wms to wms than a single wheel rear axle.

Could I have a Dana 70? How would I check that?

Edited: nevermind I got it... Looks like a 70 to me. I'm not sure if that is a win or?

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by Kalums

Could I have a Dana 70? How would I check that?

Edited: nevermind I got it... Looks like a 70 to me. I'm not sure if that is a win or?

Looks like it to me too. Here’s my front 60 with a 60F marking in basically the same place. (Zoom in)

Someone had to of swapped that in, GM never made a K dually in 67-72 that I’m aware of.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Looks like it to me too. HereÂ’s my front 60 with a 60F marking in basically the same place. (Zoom in)

Someone had to of swapped that in, GM never made a K dually in 67-72 that IÂ’m aware of.

TIL something new. Thank you for that tid bit. I will look in the morning at the front... But I'm pretty sure it is a D44 as (if memory serves) it doesn't look as beefy(axle tubes) as your picture... Though it may be worth the effort to find a donor *grins* Man I wish I had this bad boy when I was my kiddos age(s)... Although I guarantee I would have gotten in WAY more trouble than I already did (lol).

Also how do I figure out if this is a Ford/Chryser/Jeep/ or GM axle? My wife's Uncle(s) were die hard Ford fans... And I think they got this truck in some sort of swap deal (rumor)

[57taskforce]

If you wire wheel the tubes down really good and they aren’t really pitted with rust you should find the BOM (bill of materials) number. This can be tracked to exactly what vehicle it came from originally. If you find it post it up and I’ll see if I can decipher it for you.
Here’s a little more info…
https://www.axlebuilder.com/dana_60_bom.html
It should still apply for the 70…

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

If you wire wheel the tubes down really good and they aren’t really pitted with rust you should find the BOM (bill of materials) number. This can be tracked to exactly what vehicle it came from originally. If you find it post it up and I’ll see if I can decipher it for you.
Here’s a little more info…
https://www.axlebuilder.com/dana_60_bom.html
It should still apply for the 70…

"Dodge,1968-71 D300, M300 & W300 1 Ton Pick-up & Motor Home
603018-1 Standard 4.10"
This is what I got from the Spicer "parts catalog"
It is super grimy and rusted under there... as expected.

Edit for clarity : 603018-1 was stamped on the housing... Someone welded a brake line bracket over part of the build date but it looks like "8_13_0_B6" So idk.
Now to find a "TruTrac" that will work..... Like I've got that kind of $$ *laughs*

[Kalums]

Does anyone know how you mount a "deep dish" dually rim on the front axle with-out inner rub? Are the "other axels" designed that way? If I mounted the rims I got for free I'm almost 100% sure they will rub as they are designed to be able to swap from front to back and vise versa.

Is this what I need?
https://www.southwestwheel.com/p-1935-aa-4c.aspx

[57taskforce]

So the dana front 60 dually axles, (the only GM factory dually solid axle used- and only in the sqaure body years) had different outer hubs to accommodate the dually wheels. I’ll post pictures as my front 60 was originally a dually axle.
Single wheel hubs are pictured on the truck.

In your case, the 01-04 (might even be more years) GM 3500HD dually trucks ran front dually adaptors from the factory that you might be able to use with your setup. They have a center cap in the middle that can be knocked out to allow access to the hubs. I’ve seen them used in an 44/10 bolt axle but I can’t remember for the life of me where.

Edit… said dually adaptors….
https://www.ebay.com/itm/39535117530...xoCpeQQAvD_BwE

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

So the dana 60 dually axles, (the only GM factory dually solid axle used- and only in the sqaure body years) had different outer hubs to accommodate the dually wheels. I’ll post pictures as my front 60 was originally a dually axle.
Single wheel hubs are pictured on the truck.

Do they make those hubs for a 44? Or? I mean eventually (years) I'll be putting a 60 front axle on him... I just got that set of rims free and was trying to use them and have matching front and rear rims. In fact I'm sitting here trying to scrub the rust and polish these bad boys up as we speak.
PS: Suggestions for copious amounts of rust on a chrome rim would be greatly appreciated.

[57taskforce]

Sorry I edited my last post above with a little more info, check it again for an option. Going with a 60 up front is one of the favorite things I’ve done to my truck. You won’t regret it.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Sorry I edited my last post above with a little more info, check it again for an option. Going with a 60 up front is one of the favorite things I’ve done to my truck. You won’t regret it.

You rock!! That is exactly what I need/ am looking for! I'm pretty sure that should fit my 44... If the internet overlords are correct.

Thank you! Thank you!

Also if I'm rebuilding the front hubs anyway... Are WARN hubs worth the hype/cost?

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by Kalums

You rock!! That is exactly what I need/ am looking for! I'm pretty sure that should fit my 44... If the internet overlords are correct.

Thank you! Thank you!

Yes sir not a problem. Like I said I’ve seen it used on either a 44 or 10 bolt which are basically the same axle. I know it will work.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Yes sir not a problem. Like I said I’ve seen it used on either a 44 or 10 bolt which are basically the same axle. I know it will work.

I also edit my previous post... But was wondering if WARN lockers/hubs are worth the cost in your opinion. Again thank you so much for all the help.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Yes sir not a problem. Like I said I’ve seen it used on either a 44 or 10 bolt which are basically the same axle. I know it will work.

OK now I've got a different conundrum... I've got the DANA 44 with external lockers... I guess it is considered a "big hub"... Will that change anything?

[Kalums]

My hub(s) look like this.

[57taskforce]

That is a question I don’t have the answer to unfortunately,but I’d not be surprised if they still would clear the blue dial spicer hubs. The reason I say that is they really aren’t any bigger than the actual steel portion of the hub itself. So if it clear the hub it should clear the lock out at least that’s the case in my feeble mind. I’ve had warns and blue dials both on my truck when it still had the 44. The warns are a more durable, less problem prone, design but the look of the blue dials is iconic to me anyway. If you’ve got any good pick and pulls down there in the valley of death (this time of year anyway lol) you might see if you could get them to pull a set and get a good look at a them and be able to measure the bores.

[Kalums]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

That is a question I don’t have the answer to unfortunately,but I’d not be surprised if they still would clear the blue dial spicer hubs. The reason I say that is they really aren’t any bigger than the actual steel portion of the hub itself. So if it clear the hub it should clear the lock out at least that’s the case in my feeble mind. I’ve had warns and blue dials both on my truck when it still had the 44. The warns are a more durable, less problem prone, design but the look of the blue dials is iconic to me anyway. If you’ve got any good pick and pulls down there in the valley of death (this time of year anyway lol) you might see if you could get them to pull a set and get a good look at a them and be able to measure the bores.

So these are the 3 pictures the seller you linked to on ebay sent me... Now if I'm seeing this right my outer hub is 4.5" roughly and the inner of the GM hubs is about 4"... So I thinking these might not work... Oh well back to the Arrowcraft adapters I guess. If I'm missing something please let me know... Something just occurred to me do I take off the existing hub outer and replace it with the GM adapter or is it supposed to fit over the existing hub?