55.2-59 Help with Butt weld clamps

[MD2020]

Tell me how to use these?

How far apart?
Tack first all the way around the panel ?
Or weld from 1 clamp to the other??
Tell me more???

Butt Welding Clamps - Small Welding Clamps Auto Body Panel Clamps for Edge to Edge Welding,

[mr48chev]

I've got many of Brian Martin's photos saved in a non sharable album on my Photobucket for personal reference on just such things.

These are two of his photos and they show how to do it right as far my thoughts go.

Hopefully he sees the thread and chimes in on the welding as he is the pro and I am the armature when it comes to custom body work.

From experience that isn't so good you do not want to run long beads on sheet metal. Do a series of tack welds and then tack weld between the tacks and then no weld longer than about 1 inch in one area until that area cools down.

I've been as guilty as the next guy when I was welding on sheet metal and the weld was going good and I kept on welding only to have warped metal to deal with rather than just finishing off the welds and a little smoothing out of the area.

[leegreen]

Any clamp is just a positioning device. These won't prevent warping, no matter how many you use. As mr48chev says, it is all about the welding and keeping the panel cool.

So use enough clamps to get the panels securely lined up for the length of the seam. There should be no places where then panels are not in line. Do one tack at a time and observe that the panels stay lined up and unwarped as you go. Hammer on dolly to stretch the tacks out again as needed.

I suggest looking at some videos and practicing. Fitzee's descriptions of cut and butt technique are worth some thought

[mongocanfly]

I used these when I shortened my IH bed....I spaced them with enough gap to get a mig tip between them...but they leave a gap...the more I've studied and learned, I've seen where zero gap is the preferred method..hammer and dolley as you go...many videos cover this..

[raggedjim]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

I used these when I shortened my IH bed....I spaced them with enough gap to get a mig tip between them...but they leave a gap...the more I've studied and learned, I've seen where zero gap is the preferred method..hammer and dolley as you go...many videos cover this..

I always use a gap, I may need to do some research.

[dsraven]

you can also use a long piece of key stock that fits the spot where the original metal square rod slides in. I have done this to extend a roof panel, a series of clamps one each side of the wide filler panel. it helps keep the filler panel from sliding around when fitting up the parts. if I find a pic I'll post it in another post. don't hold your breath though.
I space then far enough apart to hold the parts and leave room to weld between them. its all about the heat affected zone. small welds, planish, allow to fully cool before welding again. move around on the panel so the gap between the parts stays the same.

[dsraven]

ok, found it. this is what i meany by long lengths of key stock to fit where the smaller ones did originally in the clamps. works well actually.

[leegreen]

I don't think gap vs no gap matters as much as controlling the inevitable shrinkage from welding. If you have a gap and it starts to close up you need to hammer the tacks. If you did not have a gap those same tacks will have shrunk just as much, but you will not be able to see the tension in the panels where they come together until they start to warp or scissors past each other.

too much gap is bad as you need to use hotter bigger blobs of filler to bridge it so your weld will shrink more of the surrounding metal

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I've got many of Brian Martin's photos saved in a non sharable album on my Photobucket for personal reference on just such things.

These are two of his photos and they show how to do it right as far my thoughts go.

Hopefully he sees the thread and chimes in on the welding as he is the pro and I am the armature when it comes to custom body work.

From experience that isn't so good you do not want to run long beads on sheet metal. Do a series of tack welds and then tack weld between the tacks and then no weld longer than about 1 inch in one area until that area cools down.

I've been as guilty as the next guy when I was welding on sheet metal and the weld was going good and I kept on welding only to have warped metal to deal with rather than just finishing off the welds and a little smoothing out of the area.

You know what is funny is I tacked those pieces together then I removed the clamps and plannished the gap to NOTHING. I planish welded those "Z" cuts on the roof without any rod what so ever!

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Ok, here is the weld across the roof. I tack it with those home made clamps in place. Then I plannished it flat and closed up the gap. Not to perfection so I had to use a filler welding rod.

You ready for this? I welded using my Jewelers Torch with .023 MIG wire for a rod. I welded across the roof with ONE weld, no stopping and starting, all the way across at ONE TIME. You can see that the "HAZ" (Heat Affected Zone) is straight. I let it cool on it's own and it was "warped" maybe 3/16" at most. I plannished it to less than an 1/8" now waiting for a skim coat of bondo.


Brian

[mr48chev]

Brian, you photos were the best example that I had to correctly answer MD2020's question.

A lot of customizers feel that those clamps leave too much of a gap to fill and prefer to butt the metal up tight and tack small straps on it to hold it in place or use something similar to your straps and clamps.

One thing is that that jeweler's torch puts out a lot less heat than welding with a mig or larger torch in a smaller area that cools off faster causing less issues. I've got an aircraft torch with a small (I'd have to go look) tip that I like. I got used to using an aircraft torch when I worked at Midas Mufflers back in the 70s and they control pretty much the same as a jewler's torch.

[mongocanfly]

I know most of us will never be at the level of the professionals but of all the ones I've watched they all stress the importance of achieving 0 gap
Some of the ones i keep up with are MP&C, cornfield customs ,Wray Schelin, make it custom..

[cameo]

May I suggest you watch Fitzees Fabrication on YouTube?
First reason is I’d love to hear the reaction to his accent. He’s from out east lol. And second, he fas perfected the famous Fitzees Cut And Butt

The other tutorial would be Carters auto restyling. He does amazing work

[dsraven]

cut and butt works really well. no guess work. place the new part over the old part and zip disc through both parts. new part HAS to fit cuz you just cut it in. there will be a small gap the same width as the zip disc. use magnets, butt weld clamps or a helper to get the new part fitted up flat and then start tacking, hammer on dolly when the welds are still hot, wait for it to cool, continue tacking. the hard part is the waiting part. it takes less time than metalworking the warped part if you go too fast on the welding and things taco

[mr48chev]

Cut and butt has been for a long time as a buddy showed me how 30 years ago but agreed Fitzee is a master at it. The way my friend showed me is that you don't get ahead of yourself and cut a section get the top part that you cut out of the way and tack your butt weld and move on to the next section. I'd like to do that with my stretch cab roof and doors for the most part.

[NorCalGal]

Leegreen is right fitzee on YouTube has an excellent video of his cut and butt method.

[Tempest67]

the other bonus of the "Cut and Butt' is the new panel is naturally pulling up on the seam, (only cut 3-4 inches ahead of your weld) while the heat is trying to shrink and lower the seam.

Hope that makes sense

I have a few of those clamps in my tool box thinking they would be helpful, but can't remember the last time I used them.

[dsraven]

personally, i don't mind a little gap between the panels, especially on areas with no access to the back side. this way i know I must have full weld penetration because the gap is filled. i start with tacks. when it is tacked all around I add more tacks between those tacks. I keep doing this until the tacks get close enough together so the gap between can be welded between the tacks. when doing this strike the arc on a tack and carry the weld over to the other tack. this method ensures there is a FULL weld and no allowance for a pin hole. all this takes excruciatingly long because you gotta wait for the weld and panel to cool off FULLY before you do the next weld. I have a bunch of those clamps that I have used here and there. I also use magnets but they need to be spaced further away from the weld due to causing erratic weld puddles when too close.

[mr48chev]

It is primarily personal preference and what works best for you. The main thing is don't get in a rush and weld too much at a time and warp the metal,