55.2-59 several saginaw and bellhousing related questions for my 59

[stackz]

ok, so I'm always looking online for parts deals.

already have a 76 014 2bolt running 350 for my 59 apache. been wanting to keep it stickshift and came across a guy advertising 2 3 speed saginaws with bellhousings and linkage, etc for $300 locally. I went and grabbed them and it turns out one was a 4 speed.

the bellhousings are both for small blocks.

the orange one with side mounts is a part number 3733365. internet shows 10.5" or 11" clutch and 168 tooth flywheel.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27249463346...Bk9SR5TWwbe_ZQ

the aluminum one is part number 3858403. internet shows 10.5" clutch and 153 tooth flywheel.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/37594023258...Bk9SR87dyLe_ZQ

I have read both ways that the 365 will or will not fit trucks. thoughts? which would you run if you had both? its weird that one has a smaller flywheel but runs the same size clutch?? I have no clue which one to choose?

as for the 3 and 4 speed saginaw, I'm having pinning down what they came from?

I've had a vega 4 speed before and I have seen in person the 3 rings on them. this one has a vega shifter but either has no rings or it has a ring...but its not on the splines. it also seems to either be a 1966 or 1976 model. I have no clue. I cant figure out the partial VIN on it and I didnt think vegas came with a no ring transmission as they needed the numerically higher 1st for the underpowered 4 banger they came with...

partial vin on it is (I think) 16U166431 and the case stamp is R6T22 (dec 22, 1966 or dec 22, 1976).

the 3 speed I have no clue how to decifer the case stamp is it simply S0707. no letter for month in it. I'm adding pics for help.

I basically want to keep one of the bellhousings to use, keep the 3 speed saginaw so I can keep my 3 on the tree (just adapt linkage for it), and sell everything else I do not need. I just do not want to mis-represent the 4 speed as something it is not and I dont want to keep a bellhousing I cant use/need.

[stackz]

input shaft on the 4 speed with what looks like a ring on choked down part...but I thought all rings were supposed to be on the clutch splines?

I bought this all from a guy who got it all from a guy with a 50s belair. He had to buy everything the guy had in order to get what he wanted and he had no interest in the transmission stuff so he just listed it all the same way, as a group cheap, to unload.

my thought is the 4 speed in the vega blew up, person just got what transmission they could (this one) and swapped it in to keep going. then the car was parted out. I mean the shifter boot still has the sheet metal screws in it as if the transmission was literally ripped from the car it was in...

[leegreen]

Both housings will bolt up to your 350, but what bell/flywheel, trans, and trans mounts are you running now?

Check which flywheel size starter your 350 is drilled for, staggered holes for 168 tooth, straight for 153. If both are drilled count the teeth on your flywheel

For the transmission you want to use, check the OD of the bearing retainer and compare that to the bellhousings holes, there are car and truck diameters

Does your truck use the bellhousing mounts still?

if you want to keep 3 on the tree the trans to use is the later version saginaw with syncro for 1st gear

If I had a choice and the parts to go either way I'd use a 168 tooth flywheel and bellhousing. you can run a larger clutch and if you ever want to LS swap you probably need the 168 tooth bellhousing

I'd hang onto everything until you get your swap completed.
The saginaw 4 speed is not the strongest, but it has some value.

[stackz]

Originally Posted by leegreen

Both housings will bolt up to your 350, but what bell/flywheel, trans, and trans mounts are you running now?

Check which flywheel size starter your 350 is drilled for, staggered holes for 168 tooth, straight for 153. If both are drilled count the teeth on your flywheel

For the transmission you want to use, check the OD of the bearing retainer and compare that to the bellhousings holes, there are car and truck diameters

Does your truck use the bellhousing mounts still?

if you want to keep 3 on the tree the trans to use is the later version saginaw with syncro for 1st gear

If I had a choice and the parts to go either way I'd use a 168 tooth flywheel and bellhousing. you can run a larger clutch and if you ever want to LS swap you probably need the 168 tooth bellhousing

I'd hang onto everything until you get your swap completed.
The saginaw 4 speed is not the strongest, but it has some value.

right now the truck has the original 235 and tiny chevrolet 3 speed it came with.

I will have to check on the 350 starter holes. I'm new to all the chevy stuff and learning as I go. I guess I will hold on to everything as you said until I can get some more concrete measurements on the 350. it was out of an automatic truck and is sitting in the garage at my parents house. This is why I was asking which flywheel to use as I thought I could go either way. I intend to go get it after easter and look and I guess that will answer that question.

I have the swap kit for the 350 and transmissions that you bolt to the frame rails after you figure out where you want to put and then weld the adjustable tubes.

do you know if that is just a regular mark on that input shaft or considered a "ring"? all the ones I see online with rings have different shapes to the input shaft than mine and the rings are on the main part of the splines. I've only found one other pic like mine online.

I normally see this:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-help.1165803/

I've only seen this a couple of times and people are all over the place with ID for it:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...th-a-x.760340/
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...th-a-x.760340/
https://www.chevelles.com/threads/ne...ok-for.376755/
I'm thinking at this point to just remove the input shaft and count the teeth and go from there but I'm not sure if there are needle bearings hiding out or not that will fall into it or something...

thanks for the info!

[leegreen]

Not sure on the ring business. Put it in gear and count rotations.

The possible gear combinations of the 4 speed may not be as important a decision point as determining which parts will work together.

[mr48chev]

Well as far as the bell housings go you have a small clutch aluminum car bellhousing and a cast iron 55/57 Chevy bellhousing the going price of which is probably half again what a 55/59 TF cast iron bellhousing will cost. The little aluminum one I'd clean up and throw on Market place for what I figured was right and put some money back in the truck kitty. Same with the cast one or offer it up for a truck bellhousing.

The info you are looking for is here https://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-s...transmissions/

The image below tells what the gear ratios for the 2 groove Saginaw input shaft are.

As far as the 3 speed goes, I have one in my 48 that my buddy gave me that I ran for years and with a good shifter they are a real nice transmission for a daily driver.

[stackz]

do you mean a truck bellhousing for a small block? if so, what part number would I be looking for? and I assume it would work with factory mounting locations? would I need the front mount v8 engine mounts as well? I have read about them but not sure if I would need a special timing cover or not?

[mr48chev]

A 59 truck V8 bellhousing is all you need and the mounts to go with it.

These two images are a cast iron V8 TF bellhousing





You just order mounts for the truck if it still has the crossmember in it.

The guys selling those 55/57 V8 cast iron bellhousings are pretty proud of them and that may work in your favor. Personally I'd throw it on FB marketplace offering a straight across for a V8 truck bellhousing in good shape

[stackz]

Can't really read the part number off that bellhousing. 3784822?

Edit:3708422 but when I put that in online it comes back as 55-57 corvette?

[1project2many]

Truck V8 front mounts are reproduced now but it's not too hard to make up a set of functional front mounts. The frame mounts attach to four holes on the back side of the crossmember and the engine mounts attach to four holes on the front of the block. On the block, the holes are near the bottom on either side of the timing cover. On some blocks the casting for the holes are drilled but not tapped. On some blocks the holes are not drilled. The bottom hole on the right hand side will usually be drilled into the hole for the fuel pump pushrod if the block is machined for a mechanical pump. Many blocks are not machined for a mechanical pump. I think a creative guy could easily build a cradle that attaches to the side engine mount locations and extends to the front of the block to attach to mounts at the OE location on the crossmember.

Early V8 engines used a "short" water pump that was close to the timing cover. The short pump could create interference with some later covers. Early V8 engines used a small balancer and lower pulley. Later 350 engines used a larger balancer and pulley, and there are multiple diameter balancers in the "larger" category. It may be possible to get a combination of newer and later parts that don't work together but most of the time everything works. Just keep in mind that the belt driven accessories have to match the waterpump style.

Hurst used to make a pickup shifter that reduced shifter travel when a car four speed is installed in a truck. You might want to keep an eye open for one when searching for deals.

[mr48chev]

One more issue with a 350 and a short pump is that the timing mark on a lot of 350's is at straight up 12 O'Clock and you have to aim the timing light down behind the water pump to set the timing unless you are using a scope that has the timing probe. Sticking a parts house chrome timing tab on and timing it from the side doesn't work. Been there done that with a short pump. I see no need to run a short pump in a TF especially if it was a six cylinder truck to begin with as there is room for the long pump and fan.

As far as that cast iron car bellhousing I am thinking that Chevy had one V8 bellhousing for 55/57 cars and it also fit the early V8 Corvettes up to 62. I don't restore because i is a very boring part of the car hobby unless the vehicle is so special that it should only be restored to perfection rather than modified. The same reason I would never buy a special edition car, truck or motorcycle.

As far as those two bellhousings go in my unasked for opinion they are are either sell to recover money for the truck kitty or save for a future project items but selling cuts your initial investment or trading for a truck bellhousing keeps you from shelling out another 75 to 100 for a truck bellhousing.

The Filling station shows the rear mounts that bolt the bellhousing to the crossmember and there it says that trucks up through 82 used those same mounts (on 4 or 5 speed trucks) Nether Napa or O'reilly is showing those mounts I looked for both my 71 GMC and 77 C30

[1project2many]

The Filling station shows the rear mounts that bolt the bellhousing to the crossmember and there it says that trucks up through 82 used those same mounts (on 4 or 5 speed trucks) Nether Napa or O'reilly is showing those mounts I looked for both my 71 GMC and 77 C30

I think you can find these on K trucks and larger C50 and C60 trucks after '66. NAPA BK 6021034

[mr48chev]

Yep https://www.napaonline.com/en/shop/a...unts/201579924

BK 6021034 is the top half and BK6021035 is the bottom part. 36 bucks no shipping at Napa for all four pieces.