47-59 1954 chevy truck differential question

[Dannetas]

hi all i'm planning an LS swap into my '54 and wish to change the gear ratio to something lower than my 4.11 i have right now. prefereably a 3.7 or something in that range.

Is there a way to keep my original housing and axles and switch the thrid member to a new one? All I can find are ford 3rd members.

Thanks,
Danny

[Rickysnickers]

You have a stock '54 rearend? I would be wondering if it will hold up to an LS engine.

[leegreen]

agreed, 1954 rear axle of any type will not live long behind a LS.

1955 was generally the first year Chevrolet light trucks had an exposed driveshaft. If you see a driveshaft under your truck and not a torque tube then someone has already replaced the original axle, you need to know what you have first. pictures would help

[dsraven]

yup, snap a few pics and post them. driveshaft or torque tube at both ends and rear axle from front and rear.
stock rear axle isn't gonna last with bigger power so might as well upgrade at the same time
one thing to consider when going for bigger power is the brake system. go fast needs to have stop faster! might as well upgrade to a dual circuit master cylinder and disc front brakes at least, power brakes maybe too
next on the list when talking brake update is the front suspension. they make disc adapers for the solid axle but is that what you want in the end, a solid axle? better to not spend money on upgrades you will be doing further upgrades on later, unless you have a buyer for those first stage upgrades when you take them off. not usually a money maker trying to sell used stuff. ensure to check and get prices on a rebuild of the stock axle if you decide to go with the stock solid axle and also check the steering gear closely for wear before you decide.
what will you want to use for wheel bolt patter if you need to swap the rear axle? chevy 5 bolt with small bolt circle? big bolt circle? standard 6 lug wheels? 6 on the front and 5 on the rear with whatever pattern the upgraded axle comes with? if sourcing a used axle due to costs this can be an issue. if there is an unlimited budget then buy a new axle with whatever your heart desires for wheel bolt pattern etc.
a lot of builds use a ford 8.8 which can be sourced from a wrecker pretty economically. a 3.73 ratio with large diameter axles, posi and rear discs come pretty cheap. explorers and rangers used them, for a small example, but their center section is offset. mustangs had a centered middle I think but may be too wide. the ranger station site has a write up on them. some builders shorten the long side axle tube and use a short side axle on both sides. this may make the dimension from axle flange to axle flange better for your width. you could upgrade the rear springs and hangers at the same time since you would be there anyway and you could get a nicer ride with rubber insulated spring eyes and shackles. it may affect the ride height though.

[mr48chev]

How do I say this without sounding condescending or unintentionally being offensive?

The simple fact is that the 54 Transmission and rear axle are pretty well a married unit with the torque tube drive shaft.

Second simple fact, the 54 transmission is not all that strong when you put horsepower in front of it. That horsepower usually being a mild 283 back in the day when we got a 55/59 V8 belllhousing and installed it on the 54 crossmember and ran the stock 3 speed and closed drive rear axle. Then we learned to change transmissions in those trucks in an expediant fashion and ran the local wrecking yards out of transmisisons.

There are some Japanese trucks in Europe that have six lug rear axles with the same bolt pattern and I believe some Toyota Tundra do and some research should find out if the axle is up to an LS.

Transmission wise, you will want the transmission designed to go with the LS or pay a king's ransom plus shipping for an adapter.


Classic parts sells a set of Rear axle seats as they refer to them as that are the correct 1-3/4 inch wide and have the correct offset to center the axle in the wheel well plus they set the rear of the truck at the stock height.

[dsraven]

sorry Dannetas, didn't realize you are in the netherlands.
do you have a plan for what your build will be when you are done?

[Dannetas]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad i asked!

The plan is to upgrade suspension, disc brakes front and rear and powersteering as well I have the truck completely dissasembled right now - ready for the powerblaster.

I do have a decent budget but I do need to make sure not to over spend. I'm not a rich guy lol - and the build will need to be spread over 3 years as I sill need to save up for what I intend to spend to make it a "safe" driver.

When I first got the truck it was still a drivable car but when we took it out to go get an icecream in one of our near villages, my wife was horrified lol.
Braking needed a lot more "planning" and when it started to rain the vacume wipers were not up to the task lol. I had a blast but my wife was looking like someone who died twice and came back to life once when we got back home haha.

I was working on my list of things I want and - need - to upgrade and realised that I had a ford 9" 26" housing with axles, a new third member, 4 link and discs - which was about 5k ex shipping and import taxes (the last two are real budget killers)

Here in the Netherlands there is not much (not that I know of) resourses to get good quality 2nd hand - so I, for the most part, have to rely on importing. And since I can't see the parts for myself before I buy I prefer new.

[Dannetas]

To add to the above.

I have had this truck for over 8 years in my garage right now. I knew it would take me a long while to get it restored "restomodded" when I bought it. Buying the truck killed my savings account and since we also bought a new home which needed attention too i put the truck in the garage and had all the loose sheet metal parts media blasted - the only thing that remains is the cab and frame.
-
The car is rock solid - no panels need to be rust managed so I'm lucky about that.

Right now I came to a point that i can free up some time and am able to spend some money on the truck to get started.

It won't be a daily driver - for that you don't want to live in the Netherlands - gas prices are rediculous here. but I will drive the truck as much as I possibly can. I'm lucky to live in Drenthe - a provence in the Netherlands where life is relaxed. Not crowded like where i used to live - In Rotterdam where millions of people are struggling to find a parking spot to able to walk 15 minutes back to their home. <--- thats actually true!

First stoplight is a 20 minute drive away from where i live now - so although it's "safer" to drive wildlife comes into play. Deer, wolves and other wildlife might just jump on the road - braking must be adequate enough to prevent accidents.

Roads are excelent here in the Netherlands - it's nothing like what i have seen anywhere else in the world - not many countries keep their roads so well looked after as overhere. Even the roads to that just one farm are like racetracks. And thats where it gets scary too because the roads are this good you tend to drive faster than you should.

But anyway i'm drifting off lol - I want this to become a good driveable car - i want it to look good too but i'm on a budget of arround 20k I can spend. Looks are less important - that can be done at a later stage.

Since I'm not a professional car builder I need all the help I can get. In my career I started as a metalworker - I can weld - have more tools than i dare to admit to my wife and have the room (kinda)

oh and Mr48chev and everyone else - no need to appologize if you think your answer may sound condecending. I'm ignorant for the most part - I ask questions because I want to learn.

please laugh about my questions if they might seem dumb lol - it because i am - for now :-)

[mr48chev]

The only Dumb question is the one you don't ask and then go ahead and make a mistake that you then have to ask how to fix.

For you to get the most value for Euro spent you will have to figure what you can source locally that Will work every bit as well but may not be what we in the US or Canada normally use such as rear axle.

An axle that is 61 inches Wheel mount surface to Wheel mount surface or 154.94 CM or close enough to that wide works quite well unless you are running extremely wide tires.

An LS engine is a great engine but unless you can source one locally you might want to think outside of the "this is how they do it in the US" box and use an engine and matching transmission that has the same power and close to the same physical size that can be sourced reasonably there and has great aftermarket support.

If you are planning to keep the front axle and change to disk brakes and stay with 6 lug wheels you will have to source the disk brake kit from the US or if you change to 5 lug you will still have to source the kit from the US or a European supplier who imports such components.

The first step in the process and it looks like you have been thinking about that step is to write your plan out on paper (or word or what ever you use on the computer) and list what you want on the truck and what you plan to do to it. That list doesn't need to be shared but lets you think out each part of the build.

It can start out pretty simple such as

Engine _______________
Transmission __________
Rear axle _____________ (needs strength to handle power of engine of choice and gear ratio to give the best drivability for the way you plan to drive it).
Tire size ______________ Tires not only have to look right on the truck for the build plan/theme you have but need to be factored into the total final drive ratio for best all around driving. Meaning that you want everything to work together to let the engine run at a favorable rpm for performance and economy when driving.

[dsraven]

when it comes to the frame and suspension, before you remove any of the old suspension, place the frame on some sturdy stands and level it fore to aft and side to side. then do the frame checks to ensure it is square and not sagged. if you have a factory assembly manual you may find the factory methods for this but, if not, take dimensions from corner to corner in an X pattern and compare. 1/8" out of square is generally acceptable. if you mark the center of each cross member and then use a laser or stringline from fore to aft across the marks you can also see if there is a bend in the frame. a stringline or laser also works good to check for sag possibly caused fromcarrying a heavy load etc. doing this stuff first will make sure you don't have a problem later.
next I advise to mark the center line of each axle. mark it on the frame with a small center punch mark or something you can find later. if you have a paint marker of something permanent like that, put a circle around the mark so you can find it easily later. for the front end take a dimension from there to a known constant point behind that. take a few pics of this so you can easily reference them later. sometimes this can be years later as life happens along the way. this will help youi find the original front axle centerline later in case you decide to clip the front end and install a front end from another vehicle or possibly an aftermarket independent front suspension.
as I am sure you are aware, being a metal guy, tyake your time welding on the frame or other stuff because laying a long weld puts localized heat into an area, even a frame, and that can cause bending as it cools.
there are a lot of aftermarket businesses who sell custom frames. if you decide to do something radical you could probably build your own frame easily enough. I visited Total Cost Innvolved (TCI) and Canadian Hotrods shops and seen how they build their frames from flat stock, cut to the pattern desired, and welded, smoothed to look like rectangular tubing that is bent. that would take some time and would require a home built frame table. checking out what the aftermarket has for custom frames and how they are laid out would give you an idea of what you might need or want to do with yours. adding cross members etc for strength and stiffening, etc
anyway, snap pics as you go along and remember to categorize parts and fasteners as you disassemble stuff so you can reference them later when you are assembling years later. I always try to remove a part, or whatever, and then assemble it with the fasteners or cable ties in such a way that i can know later exactly how it was assembled before I removed it. pics really help, archived on a thumb drive or whatever.
do you mean you already own a ford 9" axle and a few parts for it?
it's always good to have a build plan and stick to it as you go along through the build. otherwise you fall down that slippery slope of "while I have it apart I might as well do xxx too"

[Dannetas]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the time you take to try and help me.

As for the engine - I think i'm good on that part. Still way more expensive as for you guys but a decent milage engine with transmission and ecu sets me back about 4k for a 6.0 LQ4 Vortec motor en 4L60E transmission.

those still needs attention offcourse to probably overhaul it but those engines are still in the cars so i can see and hear them run there are usually 4 or 5 to pick from. I guess it's important to pick an engine that ran on gasoline instead of gas but I don't think many trucks run on gas in the us - right?

No - I don't own a ford 9" axle yet but from what I read those work well as a replacement.

In my planning I was considering a mustang II front weld on IRS. The amount of work seems decent and there are many builds that used these and the costs are not that high to get those kits sent to the Netherlands. My guess is IRS will make the truck feel much better on the road Independant suspension with a 4 link in the rear is what I thought might be best as well. Although I have no experience with how driveablity will improve.

as for the front end I found - This Kit

The measurements they show in their pictures are spot on to what I measured on my truck. Not sure if it's the most cost effective versus choise of doing it.

I Did some research after reading your advice and I found this website where I can add the numbers from the transmission - gear ration of my ring and pinion I think it's called? and the height of the tires - I need to fiddle with that once I know what transmission I can "score" - 2000 rpm at 65miles is that what I should be aiming for?

I do want to lower the truck a bit I like the looks when they sit lower to the ground. Not airbag low to the ground! What would be a good number to aim for to still be able to handle speedbumps and not have to worry about hitting the ground?

Oh a pic from when I first brought the truck home. Right now there is not much to see as it's all piled up. The only thing left in the garage is the frame and cab.

[Dannetas]

I dont get the link to the ebay listing to work - sorry - i'll try and figure out why

edit #2

i just made a screenshot - works just as fine to show what I mean haha

shipping costs are decent and somehow taxes are not that bad either. I contacted speedway motors before and asked them about shipping options but their quotes are way higher than ther shipoping costs compared to buying on ebay

[dsraven]

if planning a new IFS you willl need to know what ride height and rake angle you want. once a cross member is welded in then it's too late to change rake angle. tire size outside diameter is going to make a difference here if you plan on taller tires in the rear.
there are also bolt on IFS kits
there is also the rear leaf spring approach with softer than original springs and new hangers and shackles from a newer truck that came with rubber bushings in the spring eyes. a 4 link is cool but they take space where other stuff , like exhaust, fuel tanks, etc need to be. it can depend on how you want to drive your truck. road race style where you want to corner like it's on rails, or just a cool driver that was assembled a little cheaper. 4 link has more stuff to wear out, urethane bushings etc. some of those bushings can be good quality and some may not handle a lot of abuse
do some research on IFS geometry before you begin so that when the time comes for install you will know how it is supposed to work as a unit and what needs to go where, pivot points for inner tie rods, etc. brake size upgrades need to fit your chosen wheels, etc. heidts used to have a write up on their website called "understanding idependent front suspension" and they may send you a digital copy if you contact them. if you choose a mustang II style be aware of what you will be buying. ask questions like tubing wall thickness for control arms, component manufacturer for stuff like ball joints and tie rod ends. sometimes the stuff thats in the box is pretty cheap and the rubber boots that are supposed to seal the dirt out dont fit properly so it would be like there is really no rubber boot. check how the upper control arm mounting shaft is held onto the frame. there are a couple of designs and some are better than others.
I suggest to check this site for trucks like yours that you like the ride height and send that owner a private message to ask specific questions. if using an LS engine look for those trucks here too. check out what was used for exhaust manifolds, steering column to steering rack configurations, trans cross member configurations etc etc.

[Dannetas]

Thanks dsraven!

you gave me some good advice again. I found the Heidst suspension pdf
I will study it.

My planning document and excel is growing fast. There is alot I need to research still. But like you said it's better to do this first and plan it well rather than to start at the front and find out you have to do it all over once you reach the end and find out you made mistakes.

It's not a one week project anyway so I might as well learn and do it good the first time. I'm not affraid to make mistakes but if they can be avoided ...

I do have to keep in mind that it is a car and although there are less regulations for old vehicles that doesn't mean i should cut corners because it's cheaper or faster for my build. I do not wish to hurt anyone or anything.

Thanks for the tips so far - I really appreciate the time you spent to answer my questions.

Warm regards,
Danny

[dsraven]

there are a few different ways that aftermarket suppliers use to mount the upper control arm pivot shafts. the original MII used T bolts that slipped into slots in the cross memebr and protruded vertically to pass through the shaft and bolt up tight. alignment adjustments were made by lossening these bolts and moving the shaft as needed before tightening the bolts back down. this works pretty well but can be put out of alignment when the vehicle hits a pothole etc. there are some that use a different mounting system where the cross member has vertical mounting plates where the shaft is held to the crossmember and they use shims behind the shaft to achieve alignment. this style can take a bump better without being pushed out of alignment, in my opinion, so i suggest to do some research and decide what style you want and can afford. here are a couple of links for different styles. one is a bolt on cross member but they show the different methods of mounting the upper control arm shafts
https://www.mustang2suspensions.com/...hevy-front-end

https://sae-speed.com/products/1955-...-front-end-kit