High Torque Starter

[Chaparralman1974]

Morning gang,

Ok, so I have been suffering from the dreaded "heat soak" with my starter. The motor turns over and fires right up when it is cold, but after running it for a bit and then shutting it off....for example when I stop for gas....it cranks super slow like the starter is trying to spin in a bucket of glue. My motor is stock...the exhaust is stock...the wiring is all brand new and I Have 2AWG welding cables that are under 3' long for the battery cables. My grounds are all brand new and good. My starter is a rebuild from O'reilly Auto Parts and is the 3 bolt cast iron nose as I have a manual transmission. This is the starter that bolts into the bellhousing and not the block, although my 327 block has the 3 holes in it for one of those starters.

I ordered a Powermaster "High Torque" from Speedway and it worked fine for both cold and hot starts but it was defective in that the solenoid on it would only engage 50% of the time so I sent it back. The reviews on that starter seem to be hit or miss....

So, should I consider a high torque mini starter?? If so, will they bolt up to my specific bellhousing, or can I get one that bolts to the block and still use my bellhousing? I have tried to do research on these, but everything that I have found pertains more to automatics than the manuals....and the manuals that I have read up on seem to pertain more to the later models where the starter bolts up to the engine block. I have a 168 tooth flywheel as well.


Thanks, Clay

[MikeB]

I posted this two years ago on another forum:

AC Delco 336-1910A Permanent Magnet, Gear Reduction Starter, Rebuilt in Mexico
Current Price: $115 at Amazon (no core charge) Certainly more now!

The starter looked brand new and came well-packaged with a decent set of instructions. I also found a Remy Technical Service Bulletin online about full size starters vs. this permanent magnet starter, along with mounting bolt part numbers for various engines. For my late 80s small block Chevy, I used AC Delco bolts #12338064, which crossed to NAPA 899-2500-1. As most of you know, you can't simply use a standard 3/8" bolt, but must use one that's knurled (and actually a few thousands oversize) where it passes through the starter holes. It fits blocks with staggered mounting holes.

For those of you looking to replace a full size starter with a mini-starter, I highly recommend this one. I don't know how big an engine or how much compression it can handle, but it spins my mild 350 engine over like the spark plugs were removed! Also, the clearance and access are greatly improved, and the weight reduction is a bonus during installation.

[MikeB]

By the way, the starter above does not have an "R" terminal, so won't work with a points distributor. But AC Delco also sells rebuilt starters with an "R" terminal.

[Chaparralman1974]

Originally Posted by MikeB

I posted this two years ago on another forum:

AC Delco 336-1910A Permanent Magnet, Gear Reduction Starter, Rebuilt in Mexico
Current Price: $115 at Amazon (no core charge) Certainly more now!

The starter looked brand new and came well-packaged with a decent set of instructions. I also found a Remy Technical Service Bulletin online about full size starters vs. this permanent magnet starter, along with mounting bolt part numbers for various engines. For my late 80s small block Chevy, I used AC Delco bolts #12338064, which crossed to NAPA 899-2500-1. As most of you know, you can't simply use a standard 3/8" bolt, but must use one that's knurled (and actually a few thousands oversize) where it passes through the starter holes. It fits blocks with staggered mounting holes.

For those of you looking to replace a full size starter with a mini-starter, I highly recommend this one. I don't know how big an engine or how much compression it can handle, but it spins my mild 350 engine over like the spark plugs were removed! Also, the clearance and access are greatly improved, and the weight reduction is a bonus during installation.

Hi Mike, I actually saw your thread on this! :-)

Unfortunately I have not been able to find one of these starters with the correct nose cone that bolts to my bellhousing.


Clay

[57taskforce]

I don’t think they make the vortec starter with the bellhousing mount. On my 72 K20 (SM465) I ditched the iron bell housing for a square body aluminum piece with the slave cylinder mount, that also allows for the use of the starter mounting holes in the block. I converted to hydraulic clutch and vortec starter using this bell housing. Your options are greatly reduced with the old style bellhousing/starter configuration unfortunately.

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by Chaparralman1974

Hi Mike, I actually saw your thread on this! :-)

Unfortunately I have not been able to find one of these starters with the correct nose cone that bolts to my bellhousing.


Clay

It doesn't need to. Buy the starter & the correct bolts as stated above. Bolt it to the block it'll work just fine. I've done both my inline six & the wife's 283 this way. Both are still using the cast iron bellhousing.

[PbFut]

For those that need a non-offset bolt pattern and have eliminated the coil resistor wire...I picked up this one on Amazon. Chinese, but they're all foreign anyway. Very good start speed, zero heat issues. Tiny solenoid. You can rotate in the mount 360 to get the orientation best suited for your use. 80 bucks. I used one 1/16 shim to dial in the clearance to my preference. Using on BluePrint 400SBC 10.3:1 compression and TH350 Trans. Hooker Headers. Very happy with it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MQ59YCK...d_asin_title_1

[mr48chev]

On my 77 454 that was having starter heat soak issues from the day I bought it (I'd park on a slight incline to be able to clutch start it) I did the Ford solenoid trick that helped a little bit then swapped to the heavier Cables that O'Reilly sells and bought a heat shield and that seems to have finally fixed it.

You can get the Delco permanent magnet gear drive starters for either 168 or 153 tooth ring gears and to me they are far better than the aftermarket gear reduction starters.

[Chaparralman1974]

So, if I understand correctly, I can use the AC Delco starter with my existing bellhousing as long as I use the proper bolts? I have the inspection cover in place now....will that have to be modified, or does the AC Delco starter just bolt up to it?


Clay

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Chaparralman1974

So, if I understand correctly, I can use the AC Delco starter with my existing bellhousing as long as I use the proper bolts?
Clay

The starter I mentioned above has offset bolt holes like the one on the right below. I'm not sure if the holes in a 327 block are offset, but I'd guess they are not.

You will have to do some web searching to see what you can find.
A search for "High torque mini-starter for Chevy 327" gets me this Speedway page plus many others. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/...2-5-10-2-19-14

[Mike C]

Just to clarify, The diagonal bolt pattern is for a 168 tooth ring gear and the straight across pattern is for the 153 tooth ring gear. Aftermarket starters with the unsupported nose can be had with dual straight across bolt patterns that will work with either flywheel diameter if you have a block that is not dual drilled. Just to add, 400 small blocks are ONLY drilled for the diagonal pattern as the external balanced flywheel/flexplate was 168 tooth.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Mike C

Just to clarify, The diagonal bolt pattern is for a 168 tooth ring gear and the straight across pattern is for the 153 tooth ring gear. Aftermarket starters with the unsupported nose can be had with dual straight across bolt patterns that will work with either flywheel diameter if you have a block that is not dual drilled. Just to add, 400 small blocks are ONLY drilled for the diagonal pattern as the external balanced flywheel/flexplate was 168 tooth.

That's a good summary.

Many of us have used various aftermarket starters which will work with both flywheels. I've used a couple over the years on older 350 blocks. Below is an example.

Again, be sure to use knurled bolts designed specifically for starter mounting.

[1970 CST Short Wide]

Look on Summit and buy a wrap for your starter. Problem Solved