couple stupid questions on a TH350 and a 350

[stackz]

ok, I picked up this 350 and TH350 the other day thats been at my parents house since about 2002-ish. dad just remembers that it came out of a 63 truck and ran/drove. engine spins so I bought them from him about 10 years ago for $300. dad always said the guy told him it was a 327.

meh. I dont care either way but turns out its a 350. block number is 3970014 and the date code looks to be A10 73 (so maybe January 10, 1973?). it is stamped up front 14N129383 and T1112CMA.



so from here: https://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-engin...-stampings.php

it looks to break the partial vin to (1=chevy), (4=1974), (N=Norwood assembly plant), and 129383 is the build number.

question 1 - is there any way to look up the ranges of which body was being assembled as opposed to the others for my number?

I ask this question as the reference website, under the second picture reference, they mention "4xxx is the corvette range" so it seems GM would just pump out a bunch of the same car in the same vin range so I guess this info is somewhere out there?

for the engine ID code, it matches the other one so T= Tonawanda engine plant, 11=November, 12=12th day, CMA= is either 72 or 74 and it is a 1974 so 350 turbo hydramatic, 2 barrel, A B F or X body code. so yeah, block was cast in 73 and then engine put together in 74. heads look to be original to the original build as they are 333882 with date code K 8 73. so November 8, 1973 is when they were cast...kinda like the block.

what throws me off is the intake and carb...and I think maybe why the guy my dad got it from thought it was a 327... intake is 3919803 which breaks to a 1969 327 or 350 camaro intake manifold and the carb was a quadrajet number 7029223 which breaks to a 1969 350 truck carb of all things haha.

but yeah, I believe what I have is a generic 350 from 1974 from a car originally equipped with a 2 barrel intake/carb and this other stuff was swapped on at some point.

question 2 - does anyone know if all of the 1974 A/B/F/X body cars shared the same stock 2 barrel engine so then I'll know more about the stock compression ratio and cam specs? I dont even know what these "bodies" were...

I'm thinking it may have a cam in it as well as it had headers on it but wont know that until later on.

It came with a TH350 but I have never laid eyes on one before (I usually mess with fords).

question 3 - does this look like a stock torque converter or an aftermarket stall converter?

It looks tiny and like its had tabs welded to it.

question 4 - like fords, am I missing a flexplate that goes between the motor and transmission? I couldnt find one anywhere near the stuff in storage but honestly not sure as this will be the first small block chevy I'm messing around with.

thanks for any help with this stuff is greatly appreciated. I'd just like to be able to nail down what exactly the engine came out of is all. I could care less honestly but it would be neat to be able to say "its a 350 out of a 74 monte carlo...or whatever" just for giggles. And no, considering this was a 2 barrel equipped car originally, I do NOT expect it to be a 4 bolt main, nor do I care, I just want a good running motor hah.

[AussieinNC]

The convertor is not a factory standard unit. Pull it off of the trans...it just pulls straight off, and check on outer shell for stamped or written numbers etc. Dont use that convertor until its been split and checked over, same for the trans. After sitting this long, the seals will have dried up and it would likely not work correctly.

Given the engine has a higher stall convertor, and it has headers, its likely there is an aftermarket cam in the engine. Remove the rocker covers and check if they are after market or not. Pull the plugs and use a bore scope to check for pop ups on the pistons etc.

Post a pic of the end of each head showing the casting marks.

Given the huge numbers of SBC engines built, it can be very difficult to determine origins.

I personally dont care about lineage, unless its a true "numbers matching" vehicle engine package...very rare nowadays.

Lets see the ends of the heads for casting marks and if the heads have angled spark plug holes that take peanut plugs....

[ullose272]

pull a valve cover and get the cylinder head numbers

[stackz]

Originally Posted by ullose272

pull a valve cover and get the cylinder head numbers

I did, they are stock 333882 heads but I guess the pic didnt show up for whatever reason. from what I've read they are are smog heads and worth about scrap weight.

my plan for this engine in the first place was to put a set of vortec 062 heads on it along with the serpentine setup from the same truck I pulled everything from...and to toss a spare edelbrock carb I have along with a vortec specific intake manifold. I gathered all this stuff a couple years ago with the expectation to swap it all on.

the 882 heads on the engine appear bone stock.

[stackz]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

The convertor is not a factory standard unit. Pull it off of the trans...it just pulls straight off, and check on outer shell for stamped or written numbers etc. Dont use that convertor until its been split and checked over, same for the trans. After sitting this long, the seals will have dried up and it would likely not work correctly.

Given the engine has a higher stall convertor, and it has headers, its likely there is an aftermarket cam in the engine. Remove the rocker covers and check if they are after market or not. Pull the plugs and use a bore scope to check for pop ups on the pistons etc.

Post a pic of the end of each head showing the casting marks.

Given the huge numbers of SBC engines built, it can be very difficult to determine origins.

I personally dont care about lineage, unless its a true "numbers matching" vehicle engine package...very rare nowadays.

Lets see the ends of the heads for casting marks and if the heads have angled spark plug holes that take peanut plugs....

well it looks like you were correct. I found some stamped numbers which didnt break to anything online and then hand written 47013 which I thought wouldnt bring up much so I measured the converter while out there. it measured almost 10" diameter. but the numbers actually broke to a converter online:

https://bosshogtorqueconverters.com/...lHviokO5OCmx6D

no clue if this is a good brand or not?

also, here is the end of the heads and you can see what is left of the flowtech headers. I guess when dad pulled it back in the day he got mad at the headers and just hacked them off. oh well...hah.

[Lost in the 60's]

The only vehicles being built at Norwood in 1974 were F body... Camaro and Firebird.
Yes, GM used the same base engine in the entire lineup.
The converter is usually associated with racing and as said will have a high stall.
The flex plate is on the engine.
The 882 head must be on the right side to mount the alternator there, but the left head appears to be a pre '69 with no mounting holes. Have you verified the heads are the same casting number, or just the right head is 882.
There is no way to know what cam or pistons are in it without disassembly and that should be done after sitting this long anyway. Knowing what the engine was originally means nothing at this point. It's just a 350 block with unknown internals and bore/stroke. It could be either 2 or 4 bolt main caps.

[stackz]

Originally Posted by Lost in the 60's

The only vehicles being built at Norwood in 1974 were F body... Camaro and Firebird.
Yes, GM used the same base engine in the entire lineup.
The converter is usually associated with racing and as said will have a high stall.
The flex plate is on the engine.
The 882 head must be on the right side to mount the alternator there, but the left head appears to be a pre '69 with no mounting holes. Have you verified the heads are the same casting number, or just the right head is 882.
There is no way to know what cam or pistons are in it without disassembly and that should be done after sitting this long anyway. Knowing what the engine was originally means nothing at this point. It's just a 350 block with unknown internals and bore/stroke. It could be either 2 or 4 bolt main caps.

looks like the heads are matched. the other one is also 333882 and K 6 73. man this one has more sludge in it than the other one lol. guess the PO never changed the oil, just added it.

as for the flex plate. I misspoke. Imeant block plate like I see on all ford engines. that plate they sandwich between the engine and transmission. is there one for this or do you just mate the engine/transmission directly together?

considering what you said about norwood, I assume this is out of a base model camaro at this point as, wasnt pontiac using their own specific built 350 at this point? the one that the 400/455 was based on?

If I have time this afternoon I'm going to pop the pan just to look inside and see whats up in there because I want to look and see if the oil pickup is bent as the pan is kinda crushed in at the bottom as it is.

[MARKDTN]

IMHO that converter is junk. Way too much pitting on the snout to even try to use.

As far as the engine. It's just another mid 70's 350. One of a million or so built. Build it and run it. That said, I would much rather have a later 1-pc seal engine and it's roller cam with todays cam issues. Do you have the Vortec 350 block that the heads came from?

Also that is a '68 back intake with the oil fill like that.

[HotWheelsFan]

I see mounting holes on the left head. Front has P/S pump attached, rear of engine you can see a sensor in the mounting hole.

No plate between engine and trans on these Chevy's.

Bob

[stackz]

Originally Posted by HotWheelsFan

I see mounting holes on the left head. Front has P/S pump attached, rear of engine you can see a sensor in the mounting hole.

No plate between engine and trans on these Chevy's.

Bob

perfect thanks! just what I was curious about.

I cant for the life of me figure out what that sensor could be unless its some weirdo knock sensor? if thats an accessory bolt hole I doubt it could be a temp sensor or oil pressure sensor. I just have no clue. I wont be using it either way but now that you pointed it out I'm just curious hah.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by stackz

perfect thanks! just what I was curious about.

I cant for the life of me figure out what that sensor could be unless its some weirdo knock sensor? if thats an accessory bolt hole I doubt it could be a temp sensor or oil pressure sensor. I just have no clue. I wont be using it either way but now that you pointed it out I'm just curious hah.

A/C sensor. Does not allow the compressor to come on if the head is cold. I think it went away with cycling systems in the later 70's but not positive.

[stackz]

Originally Posted by Lost in the 60's

The only vehicles being built at Norwood in 1974 were F body... Camaro and Firebird.

this had me so curious as the first post link I provided showed multiple body styles that year at norwood. but it looks like you are right:

https://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro74.html

this is all the info I was looking for, nice! looks like the engine was built in October 1974 and was an L65 variant originally as that is pretty much the only 2v one I see in the list haha. 8.5 CR originally...so yeah, I ordered a bore scope to get a look to see if the factory pistons are still there. I wonder if I can tell from looking up under once I get the pan off?

I guess it had either a 2.73 or 3.42 from the factory but not that it matters, just neat "lore" type stuff I love.

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

A/C sensor. Does not allow the compressor to come on if the head is cold. I think it went away with cycling systems in the later 70's but not positive.

that totally makes sense, thanks!

[stackz]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

That said, I would much rather have a later 1-pc seal engine and it's roller cam with todays cam issues. Do you have the Vortec 350 block that the heads came from?

Also that is a '68 back intake with the oil fill like that.

oh ok, I will try to find the date code on it then. the part number kept coming back as 69 but I guess the oil fill makes it the earlier one? still learning this sbc stuff.

I do not have the block. I got the heads and accessories off a suburban that was rearended at the local u-pull a little while after I bought the drivetrain from my dad as I happened across them and had read that you want to find them off running vehicles or they may be cracked and is why the vehicle was there in the first place. apparently its common on them.

right now I'm researching to figure out the vortec water pump and if its reverse rotation or if can just retain the one on the motor now for a while. also, is the serpentine alternator still a 10si unit like I have just with a different pulley...its fun to research and learn. can be kinda confusing sometimes though as well.

thanks for the help everyone!

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by stackz

oh ok, I will try to find the date code on it then. the part number kept coming back as 69 but I guess the oil fill makes it the earlier one? still learning this sbc stuff.

I do not have the block. I got the heads and accessories off a suburban that was rearended at the local u-pull a little while after I bought the drivetrain from my dad as I happened across them and had read that you want to find them off running vehicles or they may be cracked and is why the vehicle was there in the first place. apparently its common on them.

right now I'm researching to figure out the vortec water pump and if its reverse rotation or if can just retain the one on the motor now for a while. also, is the serpentine alternator still a 10si unit like I have just with a different pulley...its fun to research and learn. can be kinda confusing sometimes though as well.

thanks for the help everyone!

Serpentines are reverse rotation from stock so you need the water pump that came with the serpentine system.

Stock alternator for most SB serpentine is a CS130. (Late 4.3 Blazer/S10 has a pad mount but you already have yours). CS130s had/have serious cooling issues. I do not consider them to be good paperweights. The CS144 has the same wiring as a CS130 but is many times more reliable. I think there are some CS144 Escalade units that use the same mounts as a CS130.

[stackz]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

Serpentines are reverse rotation from stock so you need the water pump that came with the serpentine system.

Stock alternator for most SB serpentine is a CS130. (Late 4.3 Blazer/S10 has a pad mount but you already have yours). CS130s had/have serious cooling issues. I do not consider them to be good paperweights. The CS144 has the same wiring as a CS130 but is many times more reliable. I think there are some CS144 Escalade units that use the same mounts as a CS130.

fair enough, thanks!

popped the pan off this morning so I could bash the big dent in the bottom of it back flat and looked at the rotating assembly. its all stock in there and its a 2 bolt main. perfectly fine with that.

[Steeveedee]

'67- '69 Z/28s were two bolt main, as well as every 283 and 327 until the four bolt main crank came out. They revved to stupid-high RPMs, without (usually) breaking. Nothing wrong with a two bolt main cap engine. I had a '64 Impala convertible with an SHP 327 and a 4-speed that I could rev high enough to throw the fan belt.

Fun story- I was out for a drive with my wife of maybe a year in that car. Driving out of the Antelope Valley on Avenue D, which turns into HWY 138 and meets the 5 FWY. Might have those IDs wrong. Anyway, I wound the engine up and got on some speed. I noticed that the "GEN" light was on, but we had driven into a locust migration, so I couldn't stop and put the belt back on. I'd run it up to 100 MPH, and shut it off and coast. The fan would of course spin and the engine would stay cool. I drove the car about 10(?) miles through that swarm until I could pull off the road to put the belt back on. Wife was freaking out, needless to say. Convertible, I mentioned that, right? Get up to speed, so that the bugs didn't land in the car. Once it became possible for them to land in the car, I'd light it up and run it up to speed. Sure glad that the CHP didn't try to stop me.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

'67- '69 Z/28s were two bolt main, as well as every 283 and 327 until the four bolt main crank came out. They revved to stupid-high RPMs, without (usually) breaking. Nothing wrong with a two bolt main cap engine....

Pretty sure:
-67 Z28 is small journal and of course no such thing as 4-bolt small journal.
-68 Z28 is large journal but 4-bolt started in '69 so it was 2-bolt
-69 Z28 is large journal and 4-bolt mains. (DZ302)
-There was never a 4-bolt 327 (or 283 or 307). 68-69 327s were all large journal but 2-bolt mains. You can of course build one but the factory never did.

But absolutely agree that unless you are really getting a lot of power out of a SB that 4-bolt mains are not required. Also agree that 283s and to some extent 327s can really rev. Lots of small journal engines had forged cranks.

Again with modern cam issues I would much rather have a late 1-pc seal roller cam 2-bolt block than an early 4-bolt. Especially with Vortec heads that stock won't allow a lot of lift anyway. Cam break in can be a nightmare these days with a flat tappet cam.