Heart Sick and Disgusted!!!

[Chaparralman1974]

Well, I am just maddened and enraged at the moment!!!

My 327 decided to eat the cam after only about 700 miles. I literally just got done driving the truck home from the exhaust shop where I had dual exhaust custom built up and noticed a ticking sound coming from the right side of the motor. I also noticed it popping through the intake and carburetor at higher RPM's. After pulling the valve cover I found that the number 2 intake rocker was super loose (even thought the rocker nut was still tight) and the exhaust rocker was slipped off the top of the valve. It also looks like the push rods were bent as well. I checked the oil and there are metal flakes in it too.

I don't know what happened.....I followed the break in procedure to the letter.....following start up, I ran the motor to 2200RPM for 25 minutes. I used proper break in oil (Driven) with the ZDDP stuff. I changed the oil after that and used classic car oil with ZDDP, and then changed it again after 500 miles.

Clearly I now have to pull the motor, tear it all down and start over. There is metal in the oil which means the bearings are trashed.

I am so pissed at the moment that I am seriously just considering putting this truck up on "Bring A Trailer" and just being done with it......I just got done spending $1700 on new tires, $1100 on the new lift, $750 on the new Exhaust, and about $3500 for the front axle rebuild and power steering swap. Now having to spend God knows how much for a rebuild on a new motor, I don't know what to do.....

[Chaparralman1974]

Here is what I have now......I giant F'n paper weight sitting in my garage....All lifted and pretty with new tires but non-drivable during the only time of the year in Phoenix when it is fun to drive a classic truck....

[Canuckvetter]

So sorry this has happened to you. I know it is so frustrating. 25 years ago I had a speed shop freshen the motor on my 72 corvette to 400 hp. with plans to go with a group of guys to the Bloomington Illinois corvette show in June. It would have been a 12 hour road trip. After the break in period and 1-1/2hrs into the drive It sent 3 push rods through the rocker arms and was waiting for the flat bed. Once I cooled down from my “fit to be tied episode” I was glad it didn’t happen 11-1/2hrs into the journey. Faulty rockers with metal bit all through the engine. While it was apart the engine was fitted with parts to bring it up to 493 hp with 565ftlbs torque. It ran strong for 21 yrs when I sold it in 2022.

[blkcorvair]

Truck is beautiful. Sorry to hear this. Step away from it for a bit annd re-group. Defiantly worth taking a part and fixing rather than letting it go as is. Unfortunately I’ve heard of more non roller cams doing this lately than ever before. I cringe every time I break a motor in with flat tappet lifters. Cam and lifters are one place i try to research the best options I can when replacing and steer clear of cheaper parts when you can. Coat everything with engine assembly lube, and it can be a pia but pull the distributor and prime the engine oil pump really good just before firing it up again.

[c30]

Yes...That would piss me off.
You have a beautiful truck there.
Looks exactly like the one I reluctantly sold back in 1980 to purchase my first house.
Still miss it.
Step away for a moment, then direct your anger into motivation to correct this.

[raggedjim]

I hate to hear it. I seriously think the new cams have inferior metal in them.

Good luck, Rg

[HO455]

Terrible news to hear. I can understand your feelings at this point. Take a week or so to think about things.

I would do some troubleshooting before pulling the engine or selling the truck.

First thing would be to pull the oil filter and cut it open for inspection. There you will see how much metal was flowing in the oiling system.

If the filter looks reasonably clean I would pull the intake manifold and inspect the cam and lifters. I had a very similar issue with my Burban that ended up being worn out rockers that caused broken and bent push rods and one rocker stud that was cut halfway through. I saw metal in the oil on the dipstick but almost none in the filter.

Carnage at post 374.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...698377&page=15

Inspection showed the cam was good and installing new rockers and pushrods cured the problem.

Good luck with the engine. Is it the original engine?

Keep us posted on how it turns out. I always have to remind myself if driving a vintage vehicle was easy everyone would be doing it. This is coming coming from the guy who on Thursday this week had no driveable vehicles. My Burban had ongoing brakes issues and my LT1 powered 88 S10 Blazer come home on the back of a wrecker with no transmission Thursday morning. But for once UPS delivered on time Friday afternoon and after an 8 hour thrash I got the brakes fixed and was able to drive to work today! Woo Hoo!

[Sicklajoie]

Really sorry that this happened to you.
I just went back to look at your build thread.
My gosh what a beautiful truck!!
I hope you can get it back on the road soon.

[twoskies]

have to agree about
walking away for at least a couple days, let your mind reset

myself had a motor rebuilt a couple years ago
started with a precision power rebuild kit, flat tappet cam, lasted about 100 miles
tore down , cleaned the block and everything else
2nd cam was a little more aggressive, still flat tappet, it failed with a collapsed lifter 5 minutes into break in
Fortunately had gone With a Howard,s Brand Cam and lifters
very good warranty covered the cam and lifters

stayed with Howards and went roller cam and lifters
No Worries, close to 2500 miles on this one

Thinking the flat tappet cams are not heat treated the same as they used to be, if you stay flat tappet, id source an old cam

[yuccales]

That truck is to nice to let her go. Start saving, do another engine.

[truckster]

That is heartbreaking. Like others said, take a break. You have a very nice truck.

Years ago I built a very nice Olds 455. It ate the main and rod bearings within the first 200 miles. I didn't realize the carb was leaking raw gas into the intake. I was ready to be done, but I stepped away and finally went back to it, and I ended up with a really fun car I wish I still had.

[1970 CST Short Wide]

You would Hate yourself later if you let that Beauty Go and you know it. Take some time and think it through. I agree with a lot said here about flat tapped cams these days.
I would definitely consider going Roller, maybe even buying a crate engine with roller.
Good luck on your decision

[71meangreenc10]

Feel your pain man. I got seven minutes on this one before it nuked. Step back and re-group. You got this!!! Did learn from this and have not had any more issues. Give me a call and I can share a few things.

I also have done the Howards Roller conversion on a Gen 1 SBC and can share about that experience.

Smitty

[Bob B.]

Sorry to hear. Truth is these days a lot of flat tappet cams are defective. Same thing happened to my brother, he built a nice 440 Chrysler for a friend only to have the cam go flat on the run stand. We recently did a 326 Pontiac and had no issues. Used a new Melling cam and lifters, and before installation we checked every lifter for being slightly concave on the cam surface and checked every cam lobe for 1-1.5 thousanths offset grind (side to side on the lobe surface). The reason these bad cams go flat is that the lifter does not spin and just wears in one place, regardless even if you use assembly lube and break-in oil. As you see in 71meangreenc10's picture.

Of course roller cams don't have these problems...

[Rust_never_sleeps]

The Jeep 4.0 crowd are convinced new cams are softer and absolutely require break-in springs to case harden the cam around that softer core. They primarily use Comp and some Mellings

[71meangreenc10]

Yeah,
I now check all lifters for spinning in the bores during assembly after setting the valve lash. Even found that in one of my old engine books. Done three more flat tappets cams and have had no problem since.

Smitty

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by Rust_never_sleeps

The Jeep 4.0 crowd are convinced new cams are softer and absolutely require break-in springs to case harden the cam around that softer core. They primarily use Comp and some Mellings

.

Terrible result OP and, unfortunately, not as uncommon perhaps as it used to be... step away and throw some rocks at trees for a bit then develop a recovery plan.

Using lighter springs during break-in of flat tappet cams is often mentioned now-a-days and I think it's good tonic against this type of early failure, as are the other suggestions here. Also important are proper valve spring installations matching that specified by the cam choice.

Comp has come out with a new lifter material claiming less of these failures (DLC)...so the industry is aware.

Using roller cam retrofit is an option to avoid this altogether, if expensive.

I'd like to see images of the damage to lifter(s) and cam.

-Kevin

[Chaparralman1974]

Thanks everyone.....I appreciate the advice. I will regroup and collect my thoughts with it and try to make a smart decision. I will likely fix it, but these kind of setbacks can be pretty discouraging.

I have been reading all of the horror stories with flat tappet cams and it really makes me mad that the quality of parts has gone so far south in the last decade or so. I have rebuilt a few small blocks in my day and never had one do this. I am not a professional engine builder or anything, and I felt that I took my time and did everything right which just makes this a bit more painful. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

I will post up some pictures of the damage as soon as I get the motor out and apart.


Clay

[Getter-Done]

I have built lots of engines and I had it happen to me once.

It is a Sickening feeling when you know you done everything right.

[57taskforce]

I would certainly do a roller retrofit. New flat tappet setups are junk it doesn’t matter what it’s going into and who it came from. I’ve seen this a lot more than I care to admit over the last 15 years or so. A bunch of that time was when I was building engines professionally.

One option for keeping it a 327” engine and having a roller setup would be to drop your 327 crank (assuming it’s a large journal) into a 4” bore second gen ‘87+ block, and use this kit and a new oil pan to handle the rear main seal. These blocks aren’t normally drilled for the mechanical fuel pump but it can be done easily by a competent machine shop. Assuming the rotating assembly minus the bearings aren’t trashed, you could probably even reuse your pistons and rods, depending on what the bores in the existing 327 are cut too. The new block should easily be able to be fitted to your existing pistons. I would replace the rings and bearings in this situation. If it’s full of metal you’re going to have to tear the whole thing down and start over anyway, which I would suggest a fresh hone and new rings, and bearings regardless of which direction you go.
https://enginequest.com/product/sbc-...sion-aluminum/

[SRU1436]

That sucks, sorry. I experienced a wiped flat tappet cam myself recently. Same exact symptoms and issue as yours. Mine had more than 700 miles, but weird the cam wiped out unexpectedly.

I just dropped off the engine to the engine builder today. Full rebuild and going with a hydraulic roller.

Like the others said, don’t sell it.

[mr48chev]

Great looking truck but lately I have come to believe that the only flat tappet cams and lifters worth buying are what you can get over the counter at a Chevy Performance dealer
That or a reground factory camshaft done by Delta Cams in Tacoma Wa My buddy put together (I won't say built) a lot of engines with cams they reground and to my knowledge never had a cam issue with one.

[Chaparralman1974]

I am going to pull off the intake today and get a better look see into the engine to see what is going on. I spoke to Smitty last night (Thanks again man for the conversation!) and we need to verify that it isn't something like a collapsed lifter. I will report back as soon as I have additional detail.

I am thinking that if the motor needs to be gone through, I will likely take it to a professional engine builder this time. I have been reading up on phoenix engines and they do a full run stand break in and tune to deliver a turn key engine.

We will see....

[jjzepplin]

What brand is the cam? New valve springs? Sorry to hear of your engine. That is a fine looking truck and I would not rush to any decisions.

[Chaparralman1974]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

What brand is the cam? New valve springs? Sorry to hear of your engine. That is a fine looking truck and I would not rush to any decisions.

It is an Isky cam. It was a new cam that had been in storage for several years....or so I was told. I bought it with the block heads, crank and rods from a guy out here in Phoenix.

Yeah, the springs are all brand new. I had the heads completely rebuilt by a engine shop out here in Phoenix.


Clay