Finally figured it out!

[86SILVERADO]

Well I finally figured out that I could not get the truck timed right because You have to put it in DRIVE. to do it properly. Talk about a PITA. All this time I have been trying to do it in park (makes sense right?) and I could never get the RPM's low enough. So now I have to go out there and climb up under the hood of a running vehicle which the tranny is trying to put into motion. I guess it's time to adjust the P-brake and find some real good chocks. I think I might even chain the thing to a big ol oak tree or something. There is something about the idea that just doesn't sit well with me.

LOL

[mhorning]

I thought you just pulled the vacuum advance line off of the distributor and timed it to 8 degrees btc

[Russell]

Originally posted by mhorning
I thought you just pulled the vacuum advance line off of the distributor and timed it to 8 degrees btc

Me too...

[swervin ervin]

No you don't do it in drive. Do it park. Just remove the vacuum advance hose from the distributor and plug it. Make sure the rpm is what is recommended on the underhood sticker. Then set the timing to what you want and hook everything back up. If the rpm is too high, adjust it to desired rpm after done with the timing.

[Free88]

NEVER do it in park. Never heard of that before.

[swervin ervin]

Originally posted by Free88
NEVER do it in park. Never heard of that before.

Did you mean to say never do it drive, or are you saying never do it in park?

Why in the heck would want to time a engine in drive. What gear it's in doesn't matter at all. The rpm must be below where the centrifugal advance kicks in. The idle rpm doesn't matter either, as long as there is no advance working, just the base timing.

If there are more of you doing the in drive thing, keep on. We'll all have a funeral to go to someday.

[Blue Beard]

Someone is looking for a trip to the hospital or worse...

[Free88]

My apologies. NEVER do it in park. Was so shocked by the post that I said the wrong thing. Can I blame it on the -31C temp. right now. I am sorry guys thanks for correcting me.
ALWAYS DO IT IN PARK, NEVER IN DRIVE.

[swervin ervin]

It's cool. You are forgiven.

I'm trying to keep anyone from hurting themselves, or worse.

There was a guy around my parts who was tuning on his car and for some strange reason, he had it in drive. He did have a brick or something in front of one of the rear tires, with NO emergency brake on. Anyway, he decided to rev it up a little to see how it would do at WOT. Picture this, him standing in front of the car, opened the gas wide open, car jumps brick. Guess where he was then?? Yep, got run over by his own car. Never killed him but sure bruised him up pretty good. I bet he doesn't make that mistake again. But he might. May just be dumb enough to try it again. Some folks are not easily convinced.

[78chevstepside]

this is kind of a entertaining thread. I dont know if to believe it or not. The idle was so high maybe he needs to address that issue first. Unless the timing is way too advanced. :p

[86SILVERADO]

I would like to see anyone who owns a STOCK 86 silverado with a 305 an 700 tranny get it to idle at 550 rpm's with 4 degrees of initial advance in PARK and not have it run like A$$. I know because I have been following the advice of others on this site for a while and it has been causing me nothing but grief. Maybe some of you guys should break out the GM service maunal once in while to see how it is really done properly (which is what I finally did). Not saying I like the idea of it but that is how the general says it should be done and since I am not an engineer at GM I will refrain from second guessing the experts and chain the damn thing to the oak tree in the back yard.

Thanks for trying to save me from myself mike but I do have a little more common sense than to tune my truck while it is running, in drive, with no e-brake and one brick under the rear tire. Did you make that one up?

LOL

[swervin ervin]

OK.

Since I don't have a clue, do it the way you want to. I'll keep doing it the way I've been doing it for the last 30 years.

And no, I never made the story up. It's 100% true.

[78chevstepside]

I didnt question your story swervin ervin I was questioning mr 86 silverado. I see visions of a tug-of war with a tree lol. you can only hope the tree wins the battle. Maybe the 86 silverado is a different breed all together. My guess computer controlled quadrajet

[mike reeh]

Originally posted by 86SILVERADO
I would like to see anyone who owns a STOCK 86 silverado with a 305 an 700 tranny get it to idle at 550 rpm's with 4 degrees of initial advance in PARK and not have it run like A$$. I know because I have been following the advice of others on this site for a while and it has been causing me nothing but grief. Maybe some of you guys should break out the GM service maunal once in while to see how it is really done properly (which is what I finally did). Not saying I like the idea of it but that is how the general says it should be done and since I am not an engineer at GM I will refrain from second guessing the experts and chain the damn thing to the oak tree in the back yard.

Thanks for trying to save me from myself mike but I do have a little more common sense than to tune my truck while it is running, in drive, with no e-brake and one brick under the rear tire. Did you make that one up?

LOL

a couple things- first off timing at 550rpm or 750rpm are going to be the same. set the timing, then set the idle speed, no big deal.

secondly, if you're used to running any decent amount of advance, and you're turning it back to just 4 degrees- yes its going to feel like it runs like "ass".. 4 degrees is a joke if you're trying to make any sort of power. I have to turn my 77 K20 back to 2 degrees BTDC for cali emissions and it barely hobbles to the smog check station. it wont even get out of its own way- but it burns clean at this setting! After the smog check it goes back to 30 something degrees.

thirdly are you sure that everything else on the motor checks out good, and that the low rpm/timing isnt just amplifying other tuning problems with the truck? just because its stock doesnt mean its running like it should..

mike

[1FaastC10]

Originally posted by 86SILVERADO
I would like to see anyone who owns a STOCK 86 silverado with a 305 an 700 tranny get it to idle at 550 rpm's with 4 degrees of initial advance in PARK and not have it run like A$$.

it can be done. it will idle pretty smooth in the experiences i have had with my 86 C10, but is very lacking in the power department.

I know because I have been following the advice of others on this site for a while and it has been causing me nothing but grief. Maybe some of you guys should break out the GM service maunal once in while to see how it is really done properly (which is what I finally did). Not saying I like the idea of it but that is how the general says it should be done and since I am not an engineer at GM I will refrain from second guessing the experts and chain the damn thing to the oak tree in the back yard.

you're assolutely right, not one person on this site knows his @$$ from a hole in the ground. 99% of us do work on our own rides, and share our experiences with each other. if you dont like the information you're getting, you have 2 choices. you can either do it again, and do it right this time. or you can find somewhere else to get your information. even though i wasnt one of the ones who initially gave you advice, i took offense to your comment about "Maybe some of you guys should break out the GM service maunal once in while to see how it is really done properly ". just because the book says General Motors on the cover doenst mean its right. the book was written by a human, one who likely has never worked on a car before. would you take skydiving advice from someone who read about it in a book, but never jumped? i know i wouldnt.

but I do have a little more common sense than to tune my truck while it is running, in drive, with no e-brake and one brick under the rear tire. Did you make that one up?

you are aware that chains do break right? do us a favor and give your wife/girlfriend/mother your logon name and password for this site, so that at least they can inform us of your passing when that sorry piece runs you over and kills you.

[Free88]

If you know so much, and have the manual why come to the forum and ask for help? Could you also copy the page of the manual that states how to do this your way and post it here in the forum so all of us know how to do it so we don't mislead anyone again, as I can't locate the page in my manual. I am very interested in knowing where it is in the mannual so that I can show it to my GM mechanic who has been working on GM cars and trucks for over 40 yr's.

[mhorning]

Just because I'm bored and amused. Here is the page from the "official GM manual" Good luck man...and pick a strong tree!

[TwinTurbo]

You have a vac advance HEI dizzy without a computer and only run 4 degrees initial advance?

[Free88]

Where does it say put it in drive? That photo copy explains what I was saying.

[1FaastC10]

it doesnt, that's the point. the "almighty" manual 86silverado was reading is full of crap. surprise, surprise.

[86SILVERADO]

If you read line 1. you will notice that it says to read your emissions control label and follow the directions on it. On MY emissions control label it says: Timing 4 degrees before top dead center (DR). The (DR) stands for transmission in drive. Not surprised you don't know this Jeremy because your truck is a standard. And I am very touched by the concern that all you guys have for my safety and well being. I will put my wife in the drivers seat and she can determine whether or not you all will have the pleasure of attending my funeral. Hopefully she will make the right decision.

LOL

and Jeremy, I want you to go out to your truck, put it in park and set the timing at 4 degrees BTDC at 550 rpm and then put it in drive and see what happens. Oh sorry I forgot, you can't, because your truck is a standard.

[swervin ervin]

It says, Timing 4 degrees BTDC at 550 rpm (DR) What this means is you set it to where it idles at 550 in drive. Not tune it in drive.

As I said before, it don't matter what the rpm is as long as the mechanical advance doesn't kick in. This don't start until around 1200 rpm on a stock distributor.

I'm still lost when you say we have all caused you grief trying to get the timing set. What is so hard about unhooking the vacuum advance from the distributor and plugging it, then hooking the timing light up and check what your base timing is? As you see, every one of us set out timing with the truck in park. I guess I've been doing it all wrong for all the years. Dang. How in the heck has my truck/cars ever run right?

The part about us needing to break out the GM manual and learn how to do it properly is what gets me. I have no idea how old you are, but I can tell pretty quickly you don't have much mechanical experience. Let me give you some advice, but I doubt you will take it since you've not listened to anything else I've said.

If you are needing help, don't come in here and go running off at the mouth about us causing you grief or not doing something right. I dare say, I've been working on vehicles for more years than you are old. Learn to listen to what others say. I mean really listen. You might just learn something.

Now listen to me, one more time.

All these GM specs are not to be held to the highest standard. They are bunk. Set your idle rpm in park to what you like it to feel like. Not too fast or slow. You will be able to tell if it's right. Set the timing like I said above, in park. Don't worry about the rpm. Set it to 6 or 8 degrees BTDC. Recheck your rpm and readjust to suit, but hook the vacuum advance back up first. You can check it in drive if you want to. Set it to what feels right. Don't worry about some number GM says to set it to.

That's it. If this causes you nothing but grief, I don't know what else to tell you.

[Free88]

Well said Swervin. That explains it pretty well. Just can't understand why people ask for help than say your wrong. If they know so much why waste the members time in trying to explain to them the procedure. People should know by now that wragging on someones help is just not right. These are the guys that will tell you that you can't double clutch a standard because there is only one clutch pedal. I wonder if his manual tells you how to change the muffler bearing? Just being silly now but your explanation should solve any of his problems. Keep up the good comments, your advice and know how is well appreciated.

[1FaastC10]

Originally posted by 86SILVERADO
If you read line 1. you will notice that it says to read your emissions control label and follow the directions on it. On MY emissions control label it says: Timing 4 degrees before top dead center (DR). The (DR) stands for transmission in drive.

if you read it again, it says initial timing: 4* BTDC @ 550 rpm. Idle speed: 550 (DR) stop ASSuming things, set your timing where it should be in park, then adjust your idle.

Not surprised you don't know this Jeremy because your truck is a standard. yeah, my truck is standard all right, STANDARD 700R4. always has been, since from the factory. if you're going by my sig, and know anything at all about Chevy trucks you'll know that an 86 C10 DOESNT come with a 3/4 ton rear axle, a front axle, a transfer case, or a Vortec 5.7.

And I am very touched by the concern that all you guys have for my safety and well being. I will put my wife in the drivers seat and she can determine whether or not you all will have the pleasure of attending my funeral. Hopefully she will make the right decision. i've seen way too many boneheads, who think they know it all (not unlike yourself) get seriously injured or killed when using a little common sense would've made the job very easy, and harmless.

and Jeremy, I want you to go out to your truck, put it in park and set the timing at 4 degrees BTDC at 550 rpm and then put it in drive and see what happens. Oh sorry I forgot, you can't, because your truck is a standard. [/QUOTE] my truck was set at 4* BTDC when i got it. i removed the complete ESC setup, because all it does nothing but kill any type of performance you can muster from the "powerplant" that is your stock wheezer 305. i removed my ESC, set my timing at 10* BTDC, and left it alone.

[Zilverado]

Is it something in the water or just Spring in the air? We've had some interesting exchanges here lately.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no book in the world that can match actual experience. That's what is so amazing about this forum. As a moderatley experienced (36 year old) back yard, grease monkey, I know there's always more to learn. I value all the advise here and hope we all keep it up for years to come.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound too cheezy, but I just think this is an amazing place. Keep the good advice and experience coming - Mike and friends.