Anyone own a early 80s Trans Am, or have the haynes manual? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Russell · 03-18-2004, 08:39 PM

Hey guys!

A buddy at school has his 402 powered Trans Am in the shop, and when he popped the hood I was just speechless at the mess.

Its gonna need to be completely rewired, and it needs the vaccume lines to be re run. There are open ports all over the place, and bare wires hanging out everywhere. No wonder the car runs like a pig... Its rad was completely dry, it doesn't have an overflow tank, so I'm taking the one from the 76 in tommorow for him, the power steering pump was nearly dry, the tranmission was nearly dry, and the engine oil is very very low. Overally the car is in pretty rough shape for having an engine that is only a year or so old... I told him to get exhaust on it ASAP or he'll burn or warp his valves as soon as he gets it warm and lets it cool off, so hopefully he is smart and gets some pipes on it sometime soon.

He isn't interested in the emissions equipment, just wants to run his hot air choke, and distributer advance.

He has a Q-Jet, and I'm fairly sure I know how it all hooks together, but I will be needing a wiring diagram to make sure that we get all the electrical done properly, along with getting all the vac stuff done right (if there is a difference for bigblocks)

Oh yeah, his brand new TH350 isn't shifting out of first either. The fluid (what little there was) was nice and red, with no metal particles in it. Is it the vac issues? He said that he had the ol' engine spinnin nearly 4500 rpm before it hit second bringing it in, and now it doesn't shift at all...

*1FaastC10* · 03-18-2004, 08:55 PM

what year is it? the F-bodies changed body styles in 1982, and no Firebird was ever available with a 402.

Russell · 03-18-2004, 09:00 PM

It isn't the stock engine, it originally came with a 327. The car's body is a 1980, and the car's engine is a 1977

I'm not 100% sure it is a 402, but thats what the kid who owns it figures, it is a big block though.

*1FaastC10* · 03-18-2004, 11:38 PM

327s havent been produced since 68. find out exactly what its got under the hood (read: get casting numbers) and go from there. the 402 was long gone by 77 too.

Russell · 03-18-2004, 11:42 PM

Alright, I'll pull the casting number tommorow and figure out exactly what is under the hood once and for all

Blue_71 · 03-19-2004, 01:54 AM

i would say the shifting would be low fluid-- thats what it was on my 74

jimfulco · 03-19-2004, 02:44 AM

Vacuum modulator on the transmission is probably not hooked up or is defective. This causes high part-throttle shift points. Could the engine be an Olds 403? Some late-'70s Firebirds used them.

my68beatertruck · 03-19-2004, 03:29 PM

a few points, if it's a trans am, i think it will have a factory shaker hood scoop. if it says 6.6 it will likely be a 403 Olds if its factory
4.9 is a 301 pontiac. if no numbers on the hood, anyones guess whats in there, everything fit in a f-body.
a few years back, early to mid 90's, i had little problem finding complete unmolested harnesses in the junk yards. i have personally changed at least 3 entire harnesses, and i forget how many engine bay/dash harnesses. not as difficult as you might think, and comes out much neater and cleaner looking than a patch job.
Good luck!!

Russell · 03-19-2004, 04:43 PM

Did Pontiac make a bbc 400? The owner of the car insists thats what under the hood...

The school told him to take the car home today though, disturbing classes when we start it up, lol!

boraxman · 03-19-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Did Pontiac make a bbc 400?

Pontiac did have a 400 and it was all Pontiac. I had one in a '76 Trans Am....wish I still had that car!

bigger=better · 03-20-2004, 12:15 AM

All real pontiacs are big block engines, even the 326! late second gen. firebirds could be had with 350(Esprit cars), 301 turbo, 400, or 403 olds.
no chevy engines until 1982.

Russell · 03-20-2004, 03:47 AM

Alright, ran the casting numbers, its a Pontiac 400 BBC, he took the car home though, so I'll just leave it at that then

No longer something I can work on, so he can figure it all out himself :p

*1FaastC10* · 03-20-2004, 05:49 PM

Russell, Pontiac never put BBC engines in ANY Firebird. they did however from time to time use the "Coprate 305 and 350", so it is possible to find a Chevy 305 or 350 under the hood of a 70-81 Firebird. if its a true Pontiac engine, that car should be one hell of a runner. one of my good friends has a '74 Formula 400 R/A car, and it flat screams.

Russell · 03-21-2004, 01:54 AM

This thing screams too... You can hear it coming from miles away, and it has simply insane acceleration. Remember that this isn't a Firebird, its a Trans Am, and it does most definitly have a 400 BBC in it

*1FaastC10* · 03-21-2004, 05:08 AM

FYI, there is no such thing as a 400 BBC, and if it is a Trans Am it is also a Firebird. Trans Am is the equivalent of Silverado... its a trim level. sometimes adds different suspension parts too.

DOOBZ · 03-21-2004, 01:01 PM

BBC is short for Big Block Chevy, Maybe we could call it a BBP(Pontiac)

*1FaastC10* · 03-21-2004, 05:28 PM

at which point it is still wrong. there is no big block, or small block Pontiac.

Russell · 03-21-2004, 05:29 PM

Then what the heck does that car have in it then? He tells me it is a 77 engine from a Trans Am, and it is most certainly a big block engine. No doubt about it.

*1FaastC10* · 03-21-2004, 06:23 PM

post some pics of it.

Russell · 03-21-2004, 06:30 PM

Its gone now... It looked a lot like a 454, was bright orange. Had a 4 bbl Rochester on it, alternator on the right hand side, internally regulated.

He tells me he ran those casting numbers and it confirmed his 400 BB idea, but apparantly not then?

Longhorn Man · 03-21-2004, 06:31 PM

Like pointed out, you were calling it a BBC, it is just simply a Pontiac 400. The small cube engines were pretty much the same as the big cube engines on the outside.
The 305 and 350 engines (corperate...or chevy engines in reality) were never installed in Firebirds nor T/A or even Formulas, untill the 3rd generation cars were introduced in 1982. Before that, the Poncho cars were Poncho powered, even though the car had the same basic shell and underpinnings as a Camaro (A much better looking shel IMO.) they were Pontiac powered.

Russell · 03-21-2004, 06:41 PM

Yeah, I said BBC which in my mind = big block lol

So pontiac's engines all looked like a chevy big block then?

bigger=better · 03-21-2004, 11:50 PM

OK, Pontiac engines are Pontiac engines. The 301 326 350 389 400 421 428 & 455 engines are all from the same basic casting. The 301 and 326 are destoroked and therefore undersquare that's why they suck. The 301 was initialy produced for the Trans Am racing series (in '69 I believe) and subsequently failed. In '79 the 301 was turboed and this made it run decent, and was used in '80 and '81 also.

Pontiacs are of comparable dimesions to other big blocks that's why we consider them to be big blocks.

Pontiac's engine color has been a light blue color for many years.

In '80 and '81 the manual trans. cars got the "corporate" (read chevrolet) (crap) engine. From '82 on it was the "corporate" block only.

The Trans Am, Formula, and Esprit were trim levels on the firebird. Different suspension packages were options also, like the ws6 pakage-a suspension upgrade.

The Pontiac engine looks nothing like a Chevy!

If you people think the later model cars scream you should ride in a '70 455TA or even better a 73 or 74 SD455 TA OMFG talk about a wet dream!

IMO the Pontiacs have always outclassed their Chevy cousins.

That said, are there any more questions?

Not trying to be an ass I just know about Pontiacs.

Longhorn Man · 03-22-2004, 08:03 AM

I've seen pleny of 4 speed 77 - 82 T/A's, but never a chevy powered one (Not stock anyways) they all had the 225 horse pontiac 400.or the 301 4 bbl. (The 2 bbl was with automatics while the 4 speeds got the 4 bbl)
The 301 was not part of the trans am racing efforts...pontiac never got that far in the plan. All it was was a last ditch effort to keep V-8 engines in there cars when the EPA was gettin strict. The 301 has very few parts that interchainge with teh rest of the Pontiac line up, it was supposed to be the next generation of pontiac engines, but in reality it was just a POS...and installed a turbo on it made it a ticking time bomb POS.
While I don't know Pontiacs, I have always studied the T/A...and I agree with you 125% on the 455 super duty...it is better than a wet dream, and much easier to clean up after too.

Russell · 03-22-2004, 11:48 AM

ah, ok, I think I get it now. So it is infact a 400 then, just not a "big block" persay. Just looks like one. So maybe my buddy isn't a fool afterfall (and I am, woo!)

imo, they look a lot like chevy engines, especially when they are painted bright orange (its a rebuilt engine, so painted orange by whoever rebuilt it) -- Though that may explain why the HEI's vac canister is on the "wrong" side, and why some of the vac stuff is pretty odd, lol

I guess I just figured that all car manufacturers made a small and big block for their vehicles...

03-18-2004, 08:39 PM	#1
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Anyone own a early 80s Trans Am, or have the haynes manual? Hey guys! A buddy at school has his 402 powered Trans Am in the shop, and when he popped the hood I was just speechless at the mess. Its gonna need to be completely rewired, and it needs the vaccume lines to be re run. There are open ports all over the place, and bare wires hanging out everywhere. No wonder the car runs like a pig... Its rad was completely dry, it doesn't have an overflow tank, so I'm taking the one from the 76 in tommorow for him, the power steering pump was nearly dry, the tranmission was nearly dry, and the engine oil is very very low. Overally the car is in pretty rough shape for having an engine that is only a year or so old... I told him to get exhaust on it ASAP or he'll burn or warp his valves as soon as he gets it warm and lets it cool off, so hopefully he is smart and gets some pipes on it sometime soon. He isn't interested in the emissions equipment, just wants to run his hot air choke, and distributer advance. He has a Q-Jet, and I'm fairly sure I know how it all hooks together, but I will be needing a wiring diagram to make sure that we get all the electrical done properly, along with getting all the vac stuff done right (if there is a difference for bigblocks) Oh yeah, his brand new TH350 isn't shifting out of first either. The fluid (what little there was) was nice and red, with no metal particles in it. Is it the vac issues? He said that he had the ol' engine spinnin nearly 4500 rpm before it hit second bringing it in, and now it doesn't shift at all... __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap) Last edited by Russell; 03-18-2004 at 08:42 PM.

03-18-2004, 09:00 PM	#3
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	It isn't the stock engine, it originally came with a 327. The car's body is a 1980, and the car's engine is a 1977 I'm not 100% sure it is a 402, but thats what the kid who owns it figures, it is a big block though. __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap) Last edited by Russell; 03-18-2004 at 09:14 PM.

03-18-2004, 11:42 PM	#5
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Alright, I'll pull the casting number tommorow and figure out exactly what is under the hood once and for all __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-19-2004, 03:29 PM	#8
my68beatertruck GOT JACK??? Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 122	a few points, if it's a trans am, i think it will have a factory shaker hood scoop. if it says 6.6 it will likely be a 403 Olds if its factory 4.9 is a 301 pontiac. if no numbers on the hood, anyones guess whats in there, everything fit in a f-body. a few years back, early to mid 90's, i had little problem finding complete unmolested harnesses in the junk yards. i have personally changed at least 3 entire harnesses, and i forget how many engine bay/dash harnesses. not as difficult as you might think, and comes out much neater and cleaner looking than a patch job. Good luck!! __________________ 68 C-10 250", 200R-4, LWB 04 F350 dually V-10, 6-spd 72 Cadillac Coupe DeVille

03-19-2004, 04:43 PM	#9
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Did Pontiac make a bbc 400? The owner of the car insists thats what under the hood... The school told him to take the car home today though, disturbing classes when we start it up, lol! __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-18-2004, 08:55 PM	#2
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	what year is it? the F-bodies changed body styles in 1982, and no Firebird was ever available with a 402.

03-18-2004, 11:38 PM	#4
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	327s havent been produced since 68. find out exactly what its got under the hood (read: get casting numbers) and go from there. the 402 was long gone by 77 too.

03-19-2004, 02:44 AM	#7
jimfulco Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Shreveport LA Posts: 3,170	Vacuum modulator on the transmission is probably not hooked up or is defective. This causes high part-throttle shift points. Could the engine be an Olds 403? Some late-'70s Firebirds used them.

03-20-2004, 12:15 AM	#11
bigger=better Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: WV Posts: 92	All real pontiacs are big block engines, even the 326! late second gen. firebirds could be had with 350(Esprit cars), 301 turbo, 400, or 403 olds. no chevy engines until 1982. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ '68 GMC Sub 4X4 new project '69 Pontiac GTO 20 year project Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine, into your brain, and that's where you get sh*tty ideas from.

03-20-2004, 03:47 AM	#12
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Alright, ran the casting numbers, its a Pontiac 400 BBC, he took the car home though, so I'll just leave it at that then No longer something I can work on, so he can figure it all out himself :p __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-20-2004, 05:49 PM	#13
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	Russell, Pontiac never put BBC engines in ANY Firebird. they did however from time to time use the "Coprate 305 and 350", so it is possible to find a Chevy 305 or 350 under the hood of a 70-81 Firebird. if its a true Pontiac engine, that car should be one hell of a runner. one of my good friends has a '74 Formula 400 R/A car, and it flat screams.

03-21-2004, 01:54 AM	#14
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	This thing screams too... You can hear it coming from miles away, and it has simply insane acceleration. Remember that this isn't a Firebird, its a Trans Am, and it does most definitly have a 400 BBC in it __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-21-2004, 05:08 AM	#15
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	FYI, there is no such thing as a 400 BBC, and if it is a Trans Am it is also a Firebird. Trans Am is the equivalent of Silverado... its a trim level. sometimes adds different suspension parts too.

03-21-2004, 01:01 PM	#16
DOOBZ Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: RedWing Mn Posts: 24	BBC is short for Big Block Chevy, Maybe we could call it a BBP(Pontiac) __________________ 85 short, bags,4-link and sway bars

03-21-2004, 05:28 PM	#17
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	at which point it is still wrong. there is no big block, or small block Pontiac.



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03-21-2004, 05:29 PM	#18
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Then what the heck does that car have in it then? He tells me it is a 77 engine from a Trans Am, and it is most certainly a big block engine. No doubt about it. __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-21-2004, 06:23 PM	#19
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	post some pics of it.

03-21-2004, 06:30 PM	#20
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Its gone now... It looked a lot like a 454, was bright orange. Had a 4 bbl Rochester on it, alternator on the right hand side, internally regulated. He tells me he ran those casting numbers and it confirmed his 400 BB idea, but apparantly not then? __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-21-2004, 06:31 PM	#21
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Like pointed out, you were calling it a BBC, it is just simply a Pontiac 400. The small cube engines were pretty much the same as the big cube engines on the outside. The 305 and 350 engines (corperate...or chevy engines in reality) were never installed in Firebirds nor T/A or even Formulas, untill the 3rd generation cars were introduced in 1982. Before that, the Poncho cars were Poncho powered, even though the car had the same basic shell and underpinnings as a Camaro (A much better looking shel IMO.) they were Pontiac powered.

03-21-2004, 06:41 PM	#22
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Yeah, I said BBC which in my mind = big block lol So pontiac's engines all looked like a chevy big block then? __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-21-2004, 11:50 PM	#23
bigger=better Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: WV Posts: 92	OK, Pontiac engines are Pontiac engines. The 301 326 350 389 400 421 428 & 455 engines are all from the same basic casting. The 301 and 326 are destoroked and therefore undersquare that's why they suck. The 301 was initialy produced for the Trans Am racing series (in '69 I believe) and subsequently failed. In '79 the 301 was turboed and this made it run decent, and was used in '80 and '81 also. Pontiacs are of comparable dimesions to other big blocks that's why we consider them to be big blocks. Pontiac's engine color has been a light blue color for many years. In '80 and '81 the manual trans. cars got the "corporate" (read chevrolet) (crap) engine. From '82 on it was the "corporate" block only. The Trans Am, Formula, and Esprit were trim levels on the firebird. Different suspension packages were options also, like the ws6 pakage-a suspension upgrade. The Pontiac engine looks nothing like a Chevy! If you people think the later model cars scream you should ride in a '70 455TA or even better a 73 or 74 SD455 TA OMFG talk about a wet dream! IMO the Pontiacs have always outclassed their Chevy cousins. That said, are there any more questions? Not trying to be an ass I just know about Pontiacs. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ '68 GMC Sub 4X4 new project '69 Pontiac GTO 20 year project Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine, into your brain, and that's where you get sh*tty ideas from.

03-22-2004, 08:03 AM	#24
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	I've seen pleny of 4 speed 77 - 82 T/A's, but never a chevy powered one (Not stock anyways) they all had the 225 horse pontiac 400.or the 301 4 bbl. (The 2 bbl was with automatics while the 4 speeds got the 4 bbl) The 301 was not part of the trans am racing efforts...pontiac never got that far in the plan. All it was was a last ditch effort to keep V-8 engines in there cars when the EPA was gettin strict. The 301 has very few parts that interchainge with teh rest of the Pontiac line up, it was supposed to be the next generation of pontiac engines, but in reality it was just a POS...and installed a turbo on it made it a ticking time bomb POS. While I don't know Pontiacs, I have always studied the T/A...and I agree with you 125% on the 455 super duty...it is better than a wet dream, and much easier to clean up after too.

03-22-2004, 11:48 AM	#25
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	ah, ok, I think I get it now. So it is infact a 400 then, just not a "big block" persay. Just looks like one. So maybe my buddy isn't a fool afterfall (and I am, woo!) imo, they look a lot like chevy engines, especially when they are painted bright orange (its a rebuilt engine, so painted orange by whoever rebuilt it) -- Though that may explain why the HEI's vac canister is on the "wrong" side, and why some of the vac stuff is pretty odd, lol I guess I just figured that all car manufacturers made a small and big block for their vehicles... __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

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