Z bar/pivot ball dilema

[dubie]

OK I got a V8 Zbar from fellow board member gr8scott51 (many thanks again scotty) and I seem to have run into a pivot ball location problem. The first pic shows where I assume there should be a hole in the block to accomodate the pivot ball. But as you can see there is no hole in the block. The second pic is a pic of a threaded hole, farther back on the block near the bell housing. This , I assume is where the pivot ball should go if the engine was in the factory V8 position. ANy help out there??

Pic 1

[dubie]

pic 2
The arrow is where the back hole is and the circle is where the hole should be IMO.

[CPNE]

I'm not going to do an "I told ya so" post, though it would be appropriate .

This is the only pic I have but maybe it will help. What you see here is the small block in the V8 position, but the orientation of the zbar and bracket is what is important and won't change regardless of engine position. This is the same frame location as on 4x4's.

Questions:

1. Is your frame bracket in the same position as shown? It needs to be.

2. There should be two bosses tapped in your block. A forward one and a rear one. Do you have these? Unfortunately my pic is too far away to see these and the stock ball stud for the correct location is bracket mounted using both bolt holes to mount to block. The forward hole should line up if i6 location and 4x4 location is the same. You don't want the bracket setup, just a ball stud that screws into the forward hole.

If nothing else my pic should give you a clear idea as to positioning of z-bar on frame.

Good luck

[CPNE]

Can you take a pic from a similar orientation to mine and post what you have for comparison purposes?

[CPNE]

From memory, approx locations of forward and back bosses

[dubie]

this is the best pic I can get with having the front clip on

[dubie]

I have no forward hole in my block, just the rear

[gr8scott51]

Some Z bars had a plate that positioed the bar forward of the back hole, BUT I think it still relied on there being a forward hole tapped in the block. Hopefully someone else has dealt with your situation (mine had the forward hole).

[gr8scott51]

I tried to post some pics on this thread.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...highlight=Zbar

[CPNE]

After review, it looks like your problem is the missing boss, not placement of z-bar, etc. What year block is this, casting #'s? I know some gen V BB's aren't tapped for manual linkages.

One thing to note, if you get the block issues squared away, you'll still need the correct V8 frame bracket. Yours is stll the i6 one, not the difference between yours and mine.

[dubie]

looks like I may have to drill and tap a hole into that spot on the block. I wonder why this block wouldn't have it already drilled in?

Edit: Just saw we posted at the same time Jeff

If I was to drill and tap a hole in the forward boss posiiton, everything lines up perfect. I set it all up using the stock inline 6 clutch rod that goes from the pedal to the z bar.Then hooked the inline 6 rod from the z bar to the clutch fork and it fits perfectly. Just that damn pivot ball location is holding me back.

[dubie]

The engine is out of an 82 Van. I'm unsure of the casting number at the moment. I will have to check it out this afternoon

[GMCPaul]

Take a piece of steel 1/8" thick, 1 1/2" wide and 7 1/2" long, drill a 1/2"diameter hole centered on width of steel 1 1/2" in from the end, this hole you will use to install plate using the rear hole in block, measuring from the same end you made first measurement from mark the steel in center of width at 6 3/8" and drill another 1/2" diam. hole, install a pivot ball stud designed to screw into block in this hole and fasten in place using a lock washer and 1/2" nut. Slide the z-bar over the pivot ball stud on plate you made and lower the z-bar & plate into place installing a 1/2" diameter bolt with lock washer into rear hole on block and tighten once you have aligned z-bar straight with the frame.
GMCPaul

[GMCPaul]

This is the bracket you will make.

GMCPaul

[dubie]

just one bolt will hold it in place during depressing the clutch Paul?? I have a plate that looks like that already. I'm gonna go out and test fit it

[CPNE]

Originally posted by dubie
just one bolt will hold it in place during depressing the clutch Paul?? I have a plate that looks like that already. I'm gonna go out and test fit it

I would be concerned with metal fatigue over time, but this falls into the "best solution given the circumstances" category. Use a grade 8 bolt and proper preventative maintenance and I'd bet you'll be fine. Paul's da Man!

[gr8scott51]

That's the plate I was talking about! Seems like the one I saw had an offset in it though? Scott

[fearnoevo]

My 71 has the offset bracket on it. It isn't flat, but actually bows out a bit via a couple of bends in it. It spans the two bosses on the block, and the pivot ball is about a third of the length from the back boss.

I am parting this truck out, make me an offer. Shipping from 50619 is your cost.

Jay

[CPNE]

Originally posted by gr8scott51
That's the plate I was talking about! Seems like the one I saw had an offset in it though? Scott

Like I said

There should be two bosses tapped in your block. A forward one and a rear one. ... the stock ball stud for the correct location is bracket mounted using both bolt holes to mount to block.

I should have noted that this OE bracket/ball stud unit does offset the ballstud between the to tapped holes to properly align with the zbar frame mount location. What Paul is showing is a home-fabricated unit to fix Tim's problem.

I wish I had a closeup of this for you but I don't. I had a complete factory V8 manual donor available so I chose to put the engine in the forward (factory correct) position. The Zbar was literally a 5 minute install with no suprises, but it still leaves me locating a longer driveshaft.

The more I work on these rigs the more I find you're damned if you do and damned if you don't

[fearnoevo]

CPNE, I think I may have the driveshaft you need, can you get a measurement? I will do the same and post it for you. Mine is from a 71 LWB, 1/2 ton

If not, we have been taking one piece ford driveshafts and using them, eliminates the carrier bearings and the associated broken driveshafts from 6500 rpm hole shots.

Jay

[CPNE]

Originally posted by fearnoevo
CPNE, I think I may have the driveshaft you need, can you get a measurement? I will do the same and post it for you. Mine is from a 71 LWB, 1/2 ton

If not, we have been taking one piece ford driveshafts and using them, eliminates the carrier bearings and the associated broken driveshafts from 6500 rpm hole shots.

Jay

This is a SWB and ideally I need a factory built 69-72 swb V8 3 speed donor for my driveshaft. I may just have one made.

I'm also looking for a 67/68 factory I6 3 speed 1/2 ton LWB or burb 2 piece driveshaft for another project. Again factory produced as in 69, they changed the length of the 3 speed trannies.

Thanks for the offer, but the stock unit is plenty strong for me. The only "hole shots" I do are on the golf course or in the bar.

[dubie]

Another great home made solution by GMC Paul
Here is the plate that came with the Z bar I got from Scott. I punched the pivot ball out of the orange circled hole and moved it to the blue circled hole and everything lined up perfect!! Thanks again to all of you guys for your help and input on this.

[CPNE]

Originally posted by CPNE
One thing to note, if you get the block issues squared away, you'll still need the correct V8 frame bracket. Yours is the i6 one, note the difference between yours and mine.

Tim, you've never listened to me but, if that Zbar is the V8 one, you may find that the clearance for it will be tight.

[gr8scott51]

Damn Tim, my mind has gone and left me. I forgot I sent that to you along with the Z bar. I was looking all over for it.

About an 1/8" too long isn't it?

[dubie]

You'll be the first to know how it turns out tho Jeff. ANd for my application, it's the right length Scotty

Thanks again guys and I'll keep you updated