Sparkplug and timing help

[angelsairman]

I know that this has been in here before but i cant find it. Im getting ready to start my engine for the first time and ive never set up inital timiing before. So i need a step by step on getting the distributor set up in relation to the engine so i can at least get it to fire and i should be able to get it from there, also my NGK spark plugs feel like they sit loose in the accel wires. Ive tried pushing them on hard as heck and they are on all the way but when i grab the boot i can wiggle it and feels like its not making good contact. I checked the sparkplugs to make sure they are not loose on the ends and they are not....any ideas?? Any suggestion on maybe a diffrent set of plugs to run with my HEI that should fit tight in the boot??

THanks

[bpmcgee]

To set your distributor to TDC, put the cap on it, and mark on the body where the #1 spark plug post is. Then remove the cap, and set the rotor so that it's right over that mark. For your initial break-in, this isn't horrible, although a little advanced (rotor to the left of the mark) isn't bad.

Have you tried just squeezing the connector in the wire to make it fit the plug tighter?

Brian

[68speedalert]

You need to make sure cyl. #1 is a tdc (top dead center) before you drop in the distributor.

Do this by turning the engine with #1 plug removed. When #1 cylinder is coming up to tdc, air will be pushing out of the spark plug hole. continue untill the mark on the harmonic balancer is pointing to 0 degrees. Now line up the mark that Brian suggested on the dist.

On a sb chevy, turning the dist counter clock-wise will advance the timing.

If it cranks hard, try retarding the timing while cranking, it may be over advanced.

It's not that hard.

[Stepsides 4Ever]

If you have the older-style distributor with points, after bringing the crank up to TDC on #1 cylinder, turn the distributor until the points just begin to open. Then note where the rotor is pointing in relation to the distributor cap...that is cylinder #1. I haven't done my HEI distributor initial timing yet, but the same principle applies.

When you put the distributor in, make sure you have plenty of adjusting room in both directions...that vacuum advance will bump into the manifold or valve cover at the extremes of its travel, limiting your amount of adjustment.

One very important start-up tip...you can take an old distributor and turn/grind the teeth off the end of it. Adapt the upper part of it so that it can be chucked up or turned by a drill motor. Then, before you fire up your new motor, spin up the oil pump with the drill motor to get your new and dry oil filter filled and your hydraulic lifters pumped up, and lots of lube to your crank/fod/cam bearings, before you turn it over for the first time. If you don't have any oil pressure or low oil pressure for some reason, that's the best time to find out about it...before the engine turns over for the first time.

[Cat Fuzz]

Eh, doesn't oil pump shaft need to be turned to a certain position?

[COBALT]

Doesn't matter how the oil pump shaft is oriented. Since it turns via the cam having #1 cylinder at TDC will orient the oil pump shaft where it should be anyway.

It may also be worth your time to yank the driver's side valve cover to verify you're at TDC for the COMPRESSION stroke. #1 will go to TDC for both compression and exhaust. To verify which one your intake valve for #1 will open up before it gets to TDC.

Once you know where the cylinder is in the bore you can do what others suggested and put the distributor in with the rotor oriented to fire to the #1 terminal on the distributor cap. The engine will run rough (or not run hardly at all), but a little advance and you'll be in the ball park. Keep advancing it until your engine is running smoothly enough to time.

Then use an inductive timing light to verify your timing is 10-15 degrees advanced from 0. Unplug your vacuum advance from your distributor and block it with a screw or golf tee. Set up your light per instructions (connect the main lead to the #1 plug wire), and point your gun at your ballancer with the degree indicator on it. The mark on the ballancer should be somewhere in the range I mentioned above. If not rotate the distributor until it is. Then reconnect the vacuum advance and check engine performance. Keep doing this until you get the number of degrees advance (maximum) your engine can have and perform the best. Whatever that number of degrees is write it on a label and tape it to the underside of your hood so you don't forget it.

Later, if you change your distributor, the timing will be similar, but changing your carburetor, intake and heads will mean a different number of degrees advance.

[angelsairman]

which direction is advancing the timeing clockwise or counter-clockwise??

[COBALT]

Doh my memory is slipping...

Since the rotor rotates clockwise through 18436572 it would make sense that you need to turn it counter-clockwise to advance the timing, and clockwise to retard it.

[angelsairman]

ok went through all the steps you guys said, twice. Still no starting. Sounds like it wants to, but every now and then when my buddy is cranking it ill get falmes out the exhaust manifold and les frequently ill get a backfire out of the carb. We double checked the wire for correct placement and have been trying to move the dis as we crank but still no fire, I think the gasoline might be the problem as it is 18 months old and i cant remember if i put any stabul in it. But what concerns me is the flames on the exhaust and on the carb.....any suggestions??

[A.P.]

Try this, rotate the engine to where the harmonic balancer is set to 0 degress. Than install the distributor, the rotor should be pointing to the carburator's pole. The pole used to hold the air filter. Hope this helps, it sure did for me.

[Stepsides 4Ever]

3 things an engine has to have to run: compression, fuel and spark.

Compression: take off the valve cover(s). Put your finger over the spark plug hole and crank the engine. Are the valves opening and closing? 4-cycles: intake [valve on the right opens, piston going down], compression [both valves closed, piston coming up], power [both valves closed, piston going down], exhaust [valve on the left opens, piston going up]. You should not be able to prevent your finger from being blown off the spark plug hole during the compression stroke.

Fuel: pour some fresh gas down the carb. Watch out that a backfire doesn't start your truck on fire (put the air cleaner back on!). It will run for a few seconds on prime.

Spark: pull the coil wire out of the distributor (if the older points-style dizzy) or take the spark plug wire off #1 plug and hold it close to a good ground. You should have a nice fat audible spark, 1/2' long or longer. Or, get your buddy drunk and have him hold the wire...if he comes off the ground more than 6 inches, you got good spark.

Your problem sounds like a major, major timing problem...like you are 360 degees out of time. Remember, in a 4-cycle engine any one cylinder fires every other revolution. Make sure that both valves are closed during the compression stroke, especially at TDC. Either that, or somebody messed up big time on your cam timing, or your valves are not adjusted properly. Pull a plug and squirt some fuel into the cylinder, replace the plug and see if it fires.

Double check that you are firing on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. Without going into it too deeply, there is a point at TDC during the exhaust cycle where both intake and exhaust valves are open simultaneously, called split overlap. If you are firing during the wrong cycle it will either backfire or flame out the exhaust, depending on whether the timing is advanced (early) or retarded (late).

This is (literally) not rocket science.

[beamers69]

I went through same problem when I started mine for first
time after replacing motor. Had it backfire through breather
(small fire) but the worst was when I was standing behind
truck opening gate and it backfired through exhaust. Sounded
like a 12 guage shotgun. Burnt the crap out of my leg, had
to go to Dr. to get rusty metal flakes removed from my calf.
That was 5 years ago and I'm still wearing the scar. Turned
out it was a crossed wire. Couldn't really tell at the time
cause enging was loping due to cam.

[Stepsides 4Ever]

I read your post and then I saw your your avatar...ouch!

I had a friend (he's gone now) that was checking the output from his fuel pump by having his then-girlfriend hold a coffee can under the fuel line while he cranked the engine with a screwdriver across the starter solenoid. He had the coil wire shorted out so the engine wouldn't start, but somehow it came loose and arced, setting the can of gasoline on fire. She freaked out and instinctively threw the coffee can, setting him on fire.

He was burned pretty badly under his left arm, and had a horrific scar.

[pritch]

I recently rebuilt a 350 for my kids '80 GMC. I've rebuilt many small blocks and I consider myself fairly good at it. When we went to start this one up though, we had major backfiring thru the carb and nothing we did made any difference. It was driving me nuts. We finally went back and made a list and checked it twice and- somehow I got the valves to tight. I guess the intakes were just barely staying open enough to let it pop back thru the intake manifold. We re-adjusted them and it ran just fine.
BTW, I use a large extra long screwdrver with the handle cut off to prime oil pumps. It's much easier to make than all that grinding and tinkering with an old distributor.

[Stepsides 4Ever]

BTW, I use a large extra long screwdrver with the handle cut off to prime oil pumps. It's much easier to make than all that grinding and tinkering with an old distributor.

I've used that technique myself, and it works, but it can be challenging trying to keep the screwdriver tip engaged in the oil pump shaft, especially if you are a little off-center because the dizzy is a little too close to the firewall. But it is certainly better than not priming the lube system at all before lighting up a new engine, so anyway you choose to get the job done is the right way to do it, in my book...

[angelsairman]

Well double and triple checked my timing. Im still getting backfires and the occasionaly flame from the carb without it even catching on to an idle. So today im going to double check my rocker arm adustments. They are PROFORM roller tip rockers, anyone used these before?? Its my first time, ive used stamped steel in the past. If this doesnt work then i guess ill have to pull the timing cover off to double check the alignment of the cam and crank.......

[angelsairman]

FINALLY!!! Went through and readjusted all the rocker arms. They were all to tight keeping valves partially open. Fired up on the first turn of the key......music to my ears!!! Thanks PRITCH for suggesting that if your ever in Grand Forks ND the beers are on me!!!

[pritch]

I'm glad it worked out. It's maddening when you know everything is right, but it still won't work. I think what happens is that you adjust the rockers before you crank it over, and then when you crank it, the lifters pump up and make the system to tight. Anyway, glad I could help