ideas for saving starters... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

*mike reeh* · 04-07-2004, 10:38 PM

I run my base timing very very advanced and I have the problem of busting starters when Im trying to start the motor and it kicks back.. Not to mention it sounds like HELL. People in parking lots or drive thrus JUMP when I crank my truck over.. If it was just running within the last 10 minutes, its really bad. The first 1/4 revolution of the flywheel and it will KICK BACK making the hell noise. While the thought of breaking starters doesnt thrill me, Im mostly worried about breaking the starter pad on the engine block (yeah I have the brace but I usually run a mini starter, which is currently broke)..

ANYWAYS--- I was wondering what I could do to get around this... I know some high performance ignition boxes have a timing retard during engine cranking.. which is nice but i just have regular HEI at the moment. I was thinking of wiring a very small button somewhere on my dash, where, when I push it, would kill power to the distributor.. I think that once the engine gets to regular cranking speed, its ok to fire off, and I would release the button... its that first, slow 1/4 revolution that gets me every time.

Anyone have that dash (or inside cab) mounted dial for adjusting timing? I think MSD made it if i remember correctly.. Id love to also have the ability to tune the timing whilst driving....

mike

aesj2 · 04-08-2004, 01:30 AM

Try a high torque mini starter.

67_SS396 · 04-08-2004, 03:45 AM

How wild is that engine?

If it's kicking back, etc..., your initial timing is obviously way off. More is not always better. Back it down a hair and you shouldn't have that problem. Are you bumping up the initial timing to over compensate for something?

TwinTurbo · 04-08-2004, 04:26 AM

If you have that hot of an engine that needs loads of inital advance get yourself a start retard box, not cheap but cheaper than a new starter very week. If you have timing set way advanced because more seems better, go back and reset your timing to something normal

TIMSPEED · 04-08-2004, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwinTurbo
If you have that hot of an engine that needs loads of inital advance get yourself a start retard box, not cheap but cheaper than a new starter very week. If you have timing set way advanced because more seems better, go back and reset your timing to something normal

I have my timing set to 10º and it doesn't do this...

TwinTurbo · 04-08-2004, 04:34 AM

Mine is set at 14 degrees initial but I don't have the stock weights springs and advance cannister anymore

TwinTurbo · 04-08-2004, 06:19 AM

oh another thing. GM starters are jink IMO, they pulll huge currents and are downright inefficient. Those who ever opened one up will most likely agree that the internals are a mess, crude components. I have used tilton starters that are much lighter and draw much less amps to crank the engine.

TIMSPEED · 04-08-2004, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwinTurbo
Mine is set at 14 degrees initial but I don't have the stock weights springs and advance cannister anymore

Same here TT. I have the Crane Adjustable kit.

*1FaastC10* · 04-08-2004, 08:09 PM

here's an idea. put the timing where it should be, rather than "very very advanced"

*mike reeh* · 04-08-2004, 10:12 PM

well I can see this thread went way off topic... My timing is not the issue. Getting the engine to crank is.

back to the subject at hand............anyone use a timing retard box and/or cab mounted adjustable advance and/or see a problem with my idea w/ the button that kills the dist. power?

jeremy: please dont waste my time or yours anymore responding to any of my posts.. thanks

mike

76HighSierra · 04-08-2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike reeh
........anyone use a timing retard box and/or cab mounted adjustable advance and/or see a problem with my idea w/ the button that kills the dist. power?

mike

I seem to recall reading an article in super chevy or another mag about the kill button install. Their project engine was having the exact problem that yours is. It worked for them, can't see as how it won't work for you. I would use a switch that rated fairly high, amp-wise, so that it will be certain that the dizzy will get enough juice.

*1FaastC10* · 04-08-2004, 11:21 PM

seriously Mike, do you have something so wild that the timing needs to be all out of whack, like you admitted it was. im curious on the reasoning for the excessive timing. i can understand on a highly modified engine needing to do so. however i dont recall you ever mentioning a highly modified engine before, nor did you mention one in this post.

TwinTurbo · 04-09-2004, 05:30 AM

your very very very advanced timing most likely IS the problem. Also, do you still have stock mech & vac. advance on it? If so you will most likely run overm 36-38 total inc. mech and even over 52 incl. vac adv at part cruise, and that's not exactly the best way to run it (unless you desire a poorly performing engine that pops and studders)

I can not understand why on earth someone would need insane initial timing, if you need more total timing get some new weights and springs (recurve kit)

04-07-2004, 10:38 PM	#1
mike reeh 5 day ban, learn to behave. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: san diego, ca Posts: 683	ideas for saving starters... I run my base timing very very advanced and I have the problem of busting starters when Im trying to start the motor and it kicks back.. Not to mention it sounds like HELL. People in parking lots or drive thrus JUMP when I crank my truck over.. If it was just running within the last 10 minutes, its really bad. The first 1/4 revolution of the flywheel and it will KICK BACK making the hell noise. While the thought of breaking starters doesnt thrill me, Im mostly worried about breaking the starter pad on the engine block (yeah I have the brace but I usually run a mini starter, which is currently broke).. ANYWAYS--- I was wondering what I could do to get around this... I know some high performance ignition boxes have a timing retard during engine cranking.. which is nice but i just have regular HEI at the moment. I was thinking of wiring a very small button somewhere on my dash, where, when I push it, would kill power to the distributor.. I think that once the engine gets to regular cranking speed, its ok to fire off, and I would release the button... its that first, slow 1/4 revolution that gets me every time. Anyone have that dash (or inside cab) mounted dial for adjusting timing? I think MSD made it if i remember correctly.. Id love to also have the ability to tune the timing whilst driving.... mike

04-08-2004, 03:45 AM	#3
67_SS396 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Blue Ridge, Tx Posts: 1,172	How wild is that engine? If it's kicking back, etc..., your initial timing is obviously way off. More is not always better. Back it down a hair and you shouldn't have that problem. Are you bumping up the initial timing to over compensate for something? __________________ Fawker Fab three seater rock crawler buggy 498 BBC/SM465/203/205 doubler, propane, 5.13's, 42" PB Rockers '66 C10 - The new hot rod '77 3+3 Dually - 12 valve 4wd conversion tow rig project '28 Ford 2 door sedan street rod RevLimit Offroad "Hang on beer, we can do this."

04-08-2004, 06:19 AM	#7
TwinTurbo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 994	oh another thing. GM starters are jink IMO, they pulll huge currents and are downright inefficient. Those who ever opened one up will most likely agree that the internals are a mess, crude components. I have used tilton starters that are much lighter and draw much less amps to crank the engine. Last edited by TwinTurbo; 04-08-2004 at 06:28 AM.

04-08-2004, 01:30 AM	#2
aesj2 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ferndale, Michigan, USA Posts: 94	Try a high torque mini starter.

04-08-2004, 04:26 AM	#4
TwinTurbo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 994	If you have that hot of an engine that needs loads of inital advance get yourself a start retard box, not cheap but cheaper than a new starter very week. If you have timing set way advanced because more seems better, go back and reset your timing to something normal

04-08-2004, 04:34 AM	#6
TwinTurbo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 994	Mine is set at 14 degrees initial but I don't have the stock weights springs and advance cannister anymore

04-08-2004, 08:09 PM	#9
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	here's an idea. put the timing where it should be, rather than "very very advanced"

04-08-2004, 10:12 PM	#10
mike reeh 5 day ban, learn to behave. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: san diego, ca Posts: 683	well I can see this thread went way off topic... My timing is not the issue. Getting the engine to crank is. back to the subject at hand............anyone use a timing retard box and/or cab mounted adjustable advance and/or see a problem with my idea w/ the button that kills the dist. power? jeremy: please dont waste my time or yours anymore responding to any of my posts.. thanks mike

04-08-2004, 11:21 PM	#12
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	seriously Mike, do you have something so wild that the timing needs to be all out of whack, like you admitted it was. im curious on the reasoning for the excessive timing. i can understand on a highly modified engine needing to do so. however i dont recall you ever mentioning a highly modified engine before, nor did you mention one in this post.

04-09-2004, 05:30 AM	#13
TwinTurbo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 994	your very very very advanced timing most likely IS the problem. Also, do you still have stock mech & vac. advance on it? If so you will most likely run overm 36-38 total inc. mech and even over 52 incl. vac adv at part cruise, and that's not exactly the best way to run it (unless you desire a poorly performing engine that pops and studders) I can not understand why on earth someone would need insane initial timing, if you need more total timing get some new weights and springs (recurve kit)



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