Just bought a 454! Build Suggestions?

[mud.man.rj]

My last truck was an 81 1 ton with a 530hp 468 sm465/std trans w a 205 tcase. Ran 40" Nitto Mud grapplers with a 3:73 ratio. was just about perfect for a daily driver, any more would be getting to finnicky to drive and enjoy, used 781 large oval port heads, ported them and intake myself, pulled 6 grand easy but with the 4wd just found I didn't need the Rpm, the bottom end was just so great having all the torque, the big 40's felt more like 35's, would cook on command right off idle, so aim for torque, it is what moves you and the 496 would be beautiful, so much more to move the weight of the truck, should really enjoy it. I sure did.

[JacobSchni]

So with everyone suggesting a ls or 496. What would I be spending on either

[JacobSchni]

Seems like the 6.0 are alway a little more pricey. I know you can come by em with a lot of totaled trucks in junk yards

[mud.man.rj]

As mentioned in your posts by others, an Ls doesn't fit crossmember or trans, a big block fits both so overall more for the ls no matter how you look at it, but is just a matter of want besides need, if the $5K is your max or close to it a big block is just scraping by an Ls, no.

[JacobSchni]

where can i find 781 heads. what are they in. I know of a couple junkyard that might have em

[mud.man.rj]

Have to just look around for heads, not sure of years of them but earlier for sure, the peanut port will still work with porting and actually a better street head for bottom end up to about 5,800 rpm but by the sound of it by your build your aiming more for some abuse which is how I drive my trucks so the 048 or 781 w be a better choice for all around use. Watch ebay or adds in your area, sure you will still have to rebuild them.

[slotard]

Originally Posted by mud.man.rj

As mentioned in your posts by others, an Ls doesn't fit crossmember or trans, a big block fits both so overall more for the ls no matter how you look at it, but is just a matter of want besides need, if the $5K is your max or close to it a big block is just scraping by an Ls, no.

What do you mean LS doesn't fit his trans?

OP, I'd consider building your bottom end, bigger bore is extremely helpful for peak power. Then, when you have the money, throw on the nice heads and a matching cam. The peanut ports should work great for low to moderate rpm until then. I'd rather have a rock solid bottom end and ok heads than a vented block because you spun it to where the nice heads like to live.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by JacobSchni

So with everyone suggesting a ls or 496. What would I be spending on either

I touched on LS expenditures in an earlier post so I won't go into details, but I do them fairly often and to do one right you are going to be in it well over the cost of an engine build alone. Not to mention I wouldn't even look at any LS for a big truck that is less than a 5.7, and preferably a 6.0. Just the cost of everything will put you past a 454 rebuild and the 6.0 would still be stock and not make anywhere near the power you are looking for. The LS engine would then need to be opened up, heads, cam etc...and that's even more money.
Personally for your budget and what you want to do with the truck, I'd completely forget about any form of an LS swap just looking at it from a financial standpoint.
If you're still needing parts for your big block, namely a decent set of used heads, your swap meets may be your best bet. I doubt that any of the "pick-your-parts" yards are going to have anything old enough to consider.
Again, your best bet is to talk to a well known machine shop and get an idea of an engine package that will put out numbers you're happy with and do some number crunching.
Peanut port heads actually work very well, they have just been misunderstood by many. Lingenfelter proved years ago they were worthy heads on some of his 454 and 496 builds, making silly power, a real eye opener.
However keep in mind, any oval port head you do, if you want to upgrade the valve size (which most do) you are quickly going to get into $1,000 worth of parts and machine work on a set of 40+ year old heads. In my opinion it may not be worth the money with so many good aftermarket castings on the market that are reasonably priced. Stick with iron to keep costs down. There are new iron castings out there still offered. Check out Merlin, World Products, RHS, Dart. Shucks even RHS has some reasonable aluminum offerings as well as Top Line and some lesser known brands. You'll be money ahead and it makes your power goal much easier to obtain.
Again I can't stress enough, talk to a good machine shop that has a reputation for building quality power and ask them what they like to use and why. We've used Tony Bischoff at BES (one of the best in the country) as well as Koerner Racing Engines and Zimmerman Racing, they all have a little different theory on how they want to reach a power goal. Camshaft selection is just as, if not more important than cylinder heads.
I currently have my little DZ motor at Zimmermans working his magic. He just finished a Windsor build for a customer of mine, he does fantastic work. Koerner did the 454 in my 79 1 ton pickup I mentioned earlier, again top notch machine work and a whiz with camshaft selection using a lot of Howards knowledge on lobe design. You'll have to do your research to reach big power goals and do it reliably.

[pistonbroke800]

I built a 496 that I swapped in place of my 350 last winter and absolutely love it. Scat rotating assembly with 781 heads 2.19/1.88 valves and 2'' headers. My truck is an absolute animal now. With the bigger cube engine you can get away with a bigger cam and still have a very street friendly ride. 600hp can be made pretty easily with a 496. It wasn't cheap but I put a lot of fancy parts into the swap, im happy with every penny I spent.
Truck is a 2wd with a TH400 and a 12 bolt. 2500 stall and 3:73 gears.

[mud.man.rj]

Very good advice on here, another thought is a built 383, still have more cubic inchs, revs all day with way more torque and can have an easy reliable 500hp for cheaper than a big block, but all comes to choice. I myself love big blocks and the torque difference and think the 496 still makes the most sense and smiles all day every day.

[77BBGMC]

Went the "budget build" 496 route, no complaints.

[JacobSchni]

found a set of 781 heads. guys asking $500. How that for a price?

[mud.man.rj]

That's a good price if in good shape.I paid $300 for a set that needs guides.

[Firebirdjones]

I've never come across 40 year old heads that didn't need guide work.

I'd say that's probably the going rate for a set of used heads, just don't be surprised when you have to spend some coin on them. Personally I run everything through the machine shop, check for guide wear, cracks, flatness, etc...and usually find they need guides, and/or some valves replaced. After 40 years of use I find seats need replaced as well. I prefer to machine the guide boss for positive seals as well for better oil control.

In a nut shell, no matter what used heads I wind up with, inevitably I'm spending money on them before they go on an engine.

Hopefully you get lucky and they only need a few hundred bucks.

[JacobSchni]

guys gonna get pictures for me. says they are low mile. hes local too so i can go look at em in person

[77BBGMC]

Be careful with used heads, I bought a set from a guy that was supposed be good to go. I ended up heaving to have them completely gone through. As Firebird mentioned in a previous post, get to know a good machine shop. It's easy to bust a budget when gambling on used parts.

[JacobSchni]

what are some sign i should be looking for?
i can think of some obvious ones, but let me know

[77BBGMC]

I wished I had the expertise to tell you, I would suggest having a machine shop look at them before you spend the money, if the seller is open to it.

[mud.man.rj]

Worth asking that, never know could have been rebuilt before or actually be low mile..

[Firebirdjones]

Like suggested, see if the seller is open to having a shop check the heads out.

Chances are slim but worth asking. In cases like this, with very little money spent for a used set of heads, most just take their chances and roll the dice. Look at them closely yourself but a machine shop is your best bet and where they should inevitably wind up anyway.

See how sunken the valves are, an indicator it's going to need some seats. Check the combustion chamber between the valves for any obvious signs of cracking. You can look inside the springs for clues like whether it still has umbrella seals or if they have been machined for something better, or if the top of the guide is visible you can tell if it's had a set of guides pressed in or any obvious machine work in it's past.
Other than those simple things there really isn't much to go on when looking at a set of used heads. In the end they'll still have to go to a machine shop to check for things you simply can't check on the spot, things like valve stem/valve guide clearance, how bad the valve seat wear might be, or if it's had machine work done, a good reputable shop may not like what they see either and want to redo them. I've run into that myself recently.
I had an extra set of 186 heads here for my DZ motor that were date code correct and had been rebuilt in the past, still fresh in the bags. The shop I use checked them out and didn't like what they were seeing. They still had stock seats in them, although in good shape, hardened seats are the way to go. So that was the first thing. They still had original 2.02-1.60 46 year old valves in them. Valve stem wear was marginal so valves are on th elist. But the guides were replaced with stock iron guides. Again not preferred with todays modern unleaded gas so the guides have to come back out for something more durable. Plus we are machining for positive seals to have better oil conotrl, I won't build an engine using those cheap GM O-rings on top of the stems.
In the end, they are completely getting redone throughout, and I'm sure the bill is going to be $800-$1,000 when they are finished.
Just the way it goes with these things. If it weren't a numbers matching type of build, I'd be money ahead buying new aftermarket heads for this one.

[ptc]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

Are these numbers from actual dyno runs or just guessing?

HaHa... I dont run down dynos, I run down tracks.... anytime you care to line up then I GUESS we could find out.... Those are conservative numbers based on the computer build sheets less about 20%... so probably a little more than guessing....

On another note: why would anybody want peanut port or 049 or 071 heads on a BBC???? why not put a Ford DIESEL engine in it then? A BBC needs to BREATH... get the biggest you can if you are going to run IRON heads.... and if you are going to be serious about a build then get the Alum heads that are right for your build combination.

Ive got a complete GM HO top end setup from a GEN VI engine; 088 heads with new springs, stainless valves, mild hyd cam, hyd roller lifters, guide plates, pushrods, steely rocker arms all for $1100 + shipping. Will bolt right onto any Mark IV 454 block.

Just google "GM 502 HO specs" for all the cam info and all the parts.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ck-502-ho.html