55.2-59 cpp 400 rag joint

[popeyestruck]

Getting ready to cut the original column to length and grind to fit the rag joint. Rag joint has two flats spot 180 degrees apart and is drilled for set screws. The holes arent tapped for set screws. I thought they came tapped out of the box. Should I tap them and add indents on the shaft or drill straight thru the shaft and add a double nutted bolt?

[Hcb3200]

Mine came with a push pin split so it springs out to hold in place that goes all the way thru the shaft
Nut and bolt work just fine as well.
All you care about is not being able to pull it out while driving.
The double d handles all the torque.

[Hcb3200]

here is a picture of the cpp rag and pin

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by Hcb3200

here is a picture of the cpp rag and pin

Mine didnt include a pin

[dsraven]

I am sure you know, but I'll say it anyway unless a lurker is keeping track.
rag joints are made to absorb vibration in the steering column shaft. they are not made to absorb an angle change. they should be used on a section of the shaft that is straight. using a rag joint as an angle changer instead of using a u joint will only wear out the rag joint and cause failure
now, to answer the question, if it were me I would drill through and install a small bolt. I don't have much faith in a spring/roll pin for things like this that can cause a catastrophic event if they fall out. just a regular grade 5 bolt with a lock nut on the end is fine. if you steering shaft is hollow slip another short length of shafting inside it for added strength in that area. it doesn't need to be long.
just my 2 cents. it's your truck but do it right the first time and you wont have to come back later.

[dsraven]

the pic above shows pretty well that the little roll pin is expected to do the same job as the bolt and spline do. imagine doing a parking lot shuffle where you are dry steering. it's only that little pin taking all the torque you apply with the lever of the steering wheel. now do that same thing over and over and see what fails first. the roll pin, the hole in the steering shaft or the splined shaft and bolt. check on any factory vehicle for a steering shaft held together with a roll pin, I haven't found one yet. always a heavy wall tube or a solid shaft held together with bolts.
you decide.

[leegreen]

I agree with dsraven, by design a rollpin has to be a press fit to stay in place, press fit means zero slop, so the roll pin is taking all the torque up to the point where there is enough movement for the double D to take the load. That concentrated force/wear on the pin/hole interface will loosen it over time and loose roll pins fall out. That leaves just the double D overlap and whatever stops it pulling apart.

I'd use a bolt and positive safety nut: nylock, cotter pinned, safety wired etc.

[popeyestruck]

Yes I was planning on drilling the shaft and installing a bolt. The shaft is solid . My other option was to tap both holes in the rag joint and put some set screws in .

[dsraven]

drill through and use a bolt and lock nut.

[Hcb3200]

Originally Posted by dsraven

the pic above shows pretty well that the little roll pin is expected to do the same job as the bolt and spline do. imagine doing a parking lot shuffle where you are dry steering. it's only that little pin taking all the torque you apply with the lever of the steering wheel. now do that same thing over and over and see what fails first. the roll pin, the hole in the steering shaft or the splined shaft and bolt. check on any factory vehicle for a steering shaft held together with a roll pin, I haven't found one yet. always a heavy wall tube or a solid shaft held together with bolts.
you decide.

GUYS that pin takes zero torque. (unless your trying to pull your steering system into your chest) its not on the spline side which is on the steering box.
It on the steering shaft side which is double D flat edge on shaft and receiver.
I actually switched to a bolt only because i got tired of pushing that pin out when wanting to do some work requiring me to remove the steering column.
The double D on the shaft and the receiver metal takes all the torque.
if that pin or bolt is taking side to side torque then the tolerances on the double D are way off.

[dsraven]

ok, that part wasn't mentioned and I have seen builds with DOM tubing used for column shaft. anyway, your build so you do ity how you think it is right, with the thought that if something goes wrong you are driving on the same roads as the rest of us and our families.
if it were me I would still drill through and bolt it, with a shiny bolt and acorn nut if you want it pretty.

[Hcb3200]

Originally Posted by dsraven

ok, that part wasn't mentioned and I have seen builds with DOM tubing used for column shaft. anyway, your build so you do ity how you think it is right, with the thought that if something goes wrong you are driving on the same roads as the rest of us and our families.
if it were me I would still drill through and bolt it, with a shiny bolt and acorn nut if you want it pretty.

What part was not mentioned?. He said he was using the cpp rag joint.
So I was commenting on that part specifically. He would not be using DOM tubing with that part.
And I posted before I switched to a bolt so we’re all safe if I am on the road.
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[dsraven]

popeye, it's your truck so do what you think is right. I would use a small through bolt and lock nut and forget about it-double D shaft or not. thats me.

[TX3100Guy]

I hope this isn't seen as hijacking the thread, but I have a question. What is the purpose of a rag joint? I have already cut my OEM column down to several inches for use of an Ididit column. The Ididit column had a 1" double DD shaft and the instructions were to grind a double DD into the remaining portion of the OEM column, which is 3/4". I then used a coupler to join the two ends, the coupler has a 3/4" double DD slot on one end and a 1" double DD on the other end. Should I have used a rag joint instead? If so, why?

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by TX3100Guy

I hope this isn't seen as hijacking the thread, but I have a question. What is the purpose of a rag joint? I have already cut my OEM column down to several inches for use of an Ididit column. The Ididit column had a 1" double DD shaft and the instructions were to grind a double DD into the remaining portion of the OEM column, which is 3/4". I then used a coupler to join the two ends, the coupler has a 3/4" double DD slot on one end and a 1" double DD on the other end. Should I have used a rag joint instead? If so, why?

Attachment 2271949

I believe its to cut down road vibration

[dsraven]

a rag joint absorbs vibration that can come up through the steering shaft. not required, just icing on the cake so to speak. power steering pumps can transfer some vibration as well as the road. some guys confuse a rag joint's purpose with a u joints purpose. a u joint is capable of changing the angle between 2 shafts, up to approx 7 degrees, without changing the speed of the shaft (if used in pairs) and not causing a binding in the joints. a rag joint is not made to absorb any angle change, or very slight angle change. if you se a rag joint in place of a u joint it will wear out prematurely and the rubber that connects the 2 parts will seperate. not a safe scenario. some u joints are advertised to have a larger angle change

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

a rag joint absorbs vibration that can come up through the steering shaft. not required, just icing on the cake so to speak. power steering pumps can transfer some vibration as well as the road. some guys confuse a rag joint's purpose with a u joints purpose. a u joint is capable of changing the angle between 2 shafts, up to approx 7 degrees, without changing the speed of the shaft (if used in pairs) and not causing a binding in the joints. a rag joint is not made to absorb any angle change, or very slight angle change. if you se a rag joint in place of a u joint it will wear out prematurely and the rubber that connects the 2 parts will seperate. not a safe scenario. some u joints are advertised to have a larger angle change

Thank you that explains it more fully. I understand when a universal joint is required and also know about it being able to only absorb a specific amount of angle of change, just like the universal joints on the driveshaft.

At this point, I think I'll try out the double DD connector that I have in place before I think about swapping it out for a rag joint. The only reason I'm going to put it off is that I suspect from looking at some rag joints online that they are taller than my double DD connector resulting in either a taller steering column/wheel or my needing to shorten (again) the column segment that protrudes from the steering box now.

I'm going to start a thread on an electric power steering option I'm considering and look for some input too.

[Hcb3200]

dsraven's comments are spot on. Depending on your setup will depend on how much vibration you get. If its going to be your daily driver and the vibration is a pain after a while then a rag joint will help. If its a weekender only then you may not ever need one. Lots of guys never put one in even on daily drivers because they vibration in their setup is minimal. And a rag joint should be tight "around the rubber" so to speak. if there is anything over minimal play it should be replaced. the rubber is failing or its wearing wrong at its connection point.

[dsraven]

TX, if the pic is of your steering shaft set up then you have lots of room to play with should you decide to do something different. most guys cut the original shaft and tube a lot closer to the box than you did. that leaves some room for future changes but would mean you need to cut that side of the shaft set up so it is closer to the box. if you drive it for awhile and find your steering is transmitting a lot of small bumps up the shaft to the steering wheel then it would be up to you if you wanna do that work. I would try it as is and see what you think.

[TX3100Guy]

Originally Posted by dsraven

TX, if the pic is of your steering shaft set up then you have lots of room to play with should you decide to do something different. most guys cut the original shaft and tube a lot closer to the box than you did. that leaves some room for future changes but would mean you need to cut that side of the shaft set up so it is closer to the box. if you drive it for awhile and find your steering is transmitting a lot of small bumps up the shaft to the steering wheel then it would be up to you if you wanna do that work. I would try it as is and see what you think.

Good input, thanks. I was a bit concerned about even cutting the stock shaft. I modified the old adage of "measure twice, cut once" into "measure twenty times, cut twice - once intentionally long, then after wiping the sweat from my brow, a second time correctly".

Now that I've done it once, I could do it again if necessary, this time it would just be a pain in the a$$.

[dsraven]

thats what I usually do if unsure of the required outcome, measure, cut long, trim to fit. haha.