Heart Sick and Disgusted!!!

[pjmoreland]

They look like this type of thread-in stud to me.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PIO-RM348-16

[1970 CST Short Wide]

Originally Posted by pjmoreland

They look like this type of thread-in stud to me.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PIO-RM348-16

The one that’s cut on the side looks like one of this style screw in studs. If so it Makes me wonder if it’s not installed 100% straight ??

[jumpsoffrock]

EDIT: Glad you got it tore open and it wasn't as bad.

[Rust_never_sleeps]

Originally Posted by D.B

The studs do not look like the screw in design to me. I have only seen them with a hex base and these are straight base. Nor do they have a socket head for an allen wrench. But I could be wrong. If these are screw in studs, I wonder how they got them in the head.

They can come with neither flats nor a socket cap.
You can just drive studs with two nuts bound together(be careful searching that on the internet)

[Rust_never_sleeps]

Originally Posted by pjmoreland

They look like this type of thread-in stud to me.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PIO-RM348-16

Now I'm seeing that too, thanks. I mostly see the type with a football in the middle

[mike16]

I have worked in the aerospace industry including time in general aviation.
We used engine oil specified for and approved by both Lycoming/Continental and the FAA. We never had a cam or lifter failure. We also never used the engine oil supplement approved by Lycoming/Continental .

However.... others have experienced cam and lifter failure in certain specific engine types.
These engines used lifters from off the shelf automotive parts manufacturers.
Specifically Lycoming experimented with lifters off the shelf from a major engine parts manufacturer. It was generally a failure.

It's not clear to me why or how aircraft cam and lifters don't fail. Or what they do different. Probably in house manufacturing and proprietary processes. My point is that there are essentially no cam/lifter failure in the general aviation piston engines.

A solution that Lycoming/Continental came up with was an engine oil supplement that is recommended for use in thier aircraft engines.

These engines can cost at between 25k$ and up to 125 k$. They are heavily regulated by the FAA. So there is no messing around with cigar smoke verbal shell games

The supplement can be expensive. But so is a failed cam and lifters

I don't know but it begs alot of questions. Doesn't it?

[57taskforce]

I’d say that’s because aviation standards are a lot higher than automotive. The FAA isn’t going to knowingly allow parts thru the cracks that will cause planes to fall out of the sky and kill people. Odds strongly are if a small block Chevy eats a cam and lifters no one is going to pay the ultimate price over it.

[MySons68C20]

I believe you said there was glitter in the oil? Did you cut open the filter and see metal in the pleats?
I didn't re read the whole thread so apologies if you already answered.
Some of the break-in oils have a glitter or sheen to them that looks like metal particles.
We discovered this after going through a 331 stroked ford engine thinking we had a flat cam. That engine is extra clean and the ticking noise in that one WAS a loose worn out rocker arm adj nut.
I'm glad your 327 is okay!!

[54blackhornet]

If you and your loved ones are healthy and happy you have zero issues ! If you can build such a beautiful pickup as shown you can figure this out ! Lots of folks will be glad to share information with you. When I have a situation like this I just walk away from it until my anger subsides. Good luck !

[twoskies]

glad to hear its saveable
just a thought, go with roller rockers
on my motor after i installed the roller cam,
about 300 miles later, one of the rockers broke in half, original to the heads that i bought and had a machine shop do the 202 on them
went with roller rockers

thinking i had to have machine shop measure the pushrods, but that was easy

Good Luck

[Rust_never_sleeps]

Originally Posted by mike16

....These engines used lifters from off the shelf automotive parts manufacturers.
Specifically Lycoming experimented with lifters off the shelf from a major engine parts manufacturer. It was generally a failure...

I'd guess/hope they use better materials in their lifters

On these stone-age motors, the cam and lifters wear just slightly together to create a slightly dished mating surface, but any disturbance in The Force will cause that to happen unevenly, and slip to the Dark Side
This is why you don't move lifters around, nor re-use them with a new cam

Also, Materials Science ain't easy

[Chaparralman1974]

Ok, here is an update. Pictures will have to follow when I get home from work....

I think I found the issue. Some of the rocker studs are threaded and some are pressed in. Now, this pisses me off, because when I had the heads rebuilt the machine shop told me they were going to put threaded studs in. Unfortunately, I didn't really know what to look for and so the final QC is on me, but I digress. I put a straight edge up to the studs and they are at different heights. I also found a few more studs on the driver side that had some wear and galling.

So, I went ahead and pulled both heads. The combustion chambers look great. You can still see the cross hatching in the cylinders. All the plugs look fantastic as well, so I think the engine was burning fuel properly with no oil in the chambers.

The lifters all seem to look ok and the cam seems to be healthy as well.

So, here's is my plan. I am taking the heads to another machine shop and will have them replace all the studs with threaded in studs (the kind that doesn't require guide plates). I will also have them look at the #2 valve that got hit by the rocker to see if it needs to be replaced. I will also have them double check the heads for any other issues while they are off. I am also going to pull the motor so it is easier to work on. It doesn't take much to pull it anyway, so no reason not too if it makes life a tad easier.

Last summer, when I was having issues with the pan gasket leaking I pulled the motor to make it easier to change the pan gasket and rear main. When I pulled off the rear main cap, the bearing looked like it had some scratching on it. Maybe there was contaminants in the oil....I don't know....I thought that I cleaned it all really well, but apparently I didn't get it all out. Anyway, I left it that way as the truck was running fine and held good oil pressure.

So, while the motor is out, my plan is to drop the pan, pull the crank, rods, and pistons out, clean the block thoroughly, and reinstall new bearings. Obviously, I can't do the cam bearings unless it goes to the machine shop so provided that they are ok I will leave those in there. I will keep the same rings on the pistons as they seem to be ok.

Also, I am assuming at this point that the crank is not scarred up. If it is, then that changes things as I will have to get it ground / polished.

Lastly, I really regret going with the Isky RV cam that is in it. I wanted a stock motor, but someone talked me into the Isky. I am thinking about putting a stock Melling CL-MTC-1 cam and new lifters in it along with the appropriate Melling VS380 valve springs while I have it all out. What are your thoughts on this? Or am I over thinking it??

Does my logic seem flawed here?

Clay


Here are pictures that I took of the rear main bearing back in June of last year when I changed out the pan gasket.

[Chaparralman1974]

One last question....the combustion chamber at the top 3/8" or so has the black soot stuff. Can I just use a green scrubby to carefully clean that up to get the pistons out?

I will post pictures of what I am talking about when I get home.


Clay