numbers matching? original engine?

[Chevyland]

Very nice!

[geunther]

Originally Posted by NC_John

I've pulled out the engine for an LS monster build and sold most of the sbc but kept the block. Dont know what i will do with it but wont ever sell it.

Interesting. If you have access, would you snap a photo of the casting numbers. I found that my casting numbers are on the side of the block versus on the rear transmission mount area. I was thinking this was unique to Catherines engines but not sure if they are all the same.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by geunther

Interesting. If you have access, would you snap a photo of the casting numbers. I found that my casting numbers are on the side of the block versus on the rear transmission mount area. I was thinking this was unique to Catherines engines but not sure if they are all the same.

I can but since photobucket screwed us all over I don't know how to post them. My google drive links of my casting number and matching protecto-plate don't work here.

[NC_John]

Ok, like some of the other guys have shown, here is the casting number off my original block. "K05 08 TBB"

K - St Catharines
05 - May
08 - 8th day
TBB - 1970, 350, 255 hp, 4 bbl, cv/fd (?) manual transmission 3 spd.



Here is my protecto-plate



And here is the close up of the matching engine number.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by geunther

Interesting. If you have access, would you snap a photo of the casting numbers. I found that my casting numbers are on the side of the block versus on the rear transmission mount area. I was thinking this was unique to Catherines engines but not sure if they are all the same.

Ok, I can post some pics. What specifically are you interested in on the block? Which casting numbers?

[bruceman1968]

NC John, Just for fun, I went and decoded the rest of your P-O-P

M0D28 is your transmission code/number
M = Muncie 3 speed
0 = 1970
D = April
28= 28th, April 28th 1970 Build date

DE0511K is your rear axel code/number
DE = TDE(T left off because in 1970 it's redundant) = C10 3:07 open
05 = May
11 = 11th, May 11th 1970 Build date
K = GM of Canada, assembly plant

R = carb code, Rochester

5 = Build month of the Truck, May

Chevy emblem = Manufacture, Chevrolet

Sold to:
Clyde Jones
Route 3
Mocksville, North Carolina
on September 17th 1970

Your transmission code/number will be stamped on your transmission
Your rear axle code/number will be stamped on your rear axle

On the redundancy of the T in your axle code. GM often did this on the P-O-P.
You should have TDE on the rear axle itself.

[geunther]

Originally Posted by NC_John

Ok, I can post some pics. What specifically are you interested in on the block? Which casting numbers?

I am looking for the casting date. Normally, they were cast into the rear of the block on the bell housing/transmission mounting boss. On mine it is on the right side of the block. Unfortunately, they are partially obscured by the motor mount if the motor is in the truck. I am only trying to see if this was standard for the St Catherines plant for the different location.

First pic is where most SBCs have them, the second pic is where mine is (neither pic is of mine).

Your K05 08 TBB are actually stamped into the block. the date code would be part of the casting process.

[NC_John]

My date codes are also cast onto the passenger side of the block (sorry about the orientation, I didn't see how to fix it in the forum photo album).

50 ft view:



Close up:

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

Attachment 1670620
NC John, Just for fun, I went and decoded the rest of your P-O-P

Thanks Bruce. I knew most of that of course but was surprised to see the transmission was a muncie instead of a saginaw like I thought it was.

Of course, that has been since changed to a T-56 and the 3.07 open diff is now a 4.56 eaton posi

Next time I am under the hind end I'll take a look at rear end casting numbers just for giggles (its still the original housing).

[Chevyland]

This is a great thread
Thanks for keeping this one going
Guys👌

Very informative

[mikecaddy500]

Rebuild your 350 and add fi.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by mikecaddy500

Rebuild your 350 and add fi.

That would be wayyyyy cheaper than any LS swap. Before I pulled it, I installed FiTECH EFI on the small block. It made a heck of a difference and felt like it added 100 HP. The guy who bought it off me put it on his small block and said the same thing. It completely changes the personality of the engine.

If I knew what this LS swap was going to cost before I started, I definitely would have reconsidered....

[geunther]

Originally Posted by NC_John

My date codes are also cast onto the passenger side of the block (sorry about the orientation, I didn't see how to fix it in the forum photo album).

This location must be a Catherines thing. I've not seen it yet on other engine plants.

I read it as "0 E 7". Looks to be May 7, 1970 as the casting date. One more question if you don't mind, what was your build month (door jamb sticker). I would expect it to be May, June, or July.

Thanks for checking this. Its things like this that can prove or disprove if a truck was born with an engine (VIN stamp aside).

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by geunther

This location must be a Catherines thing. I've not seen it yet on other engine plants.

I read it as "0 E 7". Looks to be May 7, 1970 as the casting date. One more question if you don't mind, what was your build month (door jamb sticker). I would expect it to be May, June, or July.

Thanks for checking this. Its things like this that can prove or disprove if a truck was born with an engine (VIN stamp aside).

The metal door jamb plate or the blue decal on the door itself?

[bruceman1968]

Originally Posted by geunther

One more question if you don't mind, what was your build month (door jamb sticker). I would expect it to be May, June, or July.

His Proteco plate says May

[mikecaddy500]

rebuild your 350,add fi tech fuel injection and a 700 r4.

[geunther]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

His Proteco plate says May

Thanks bruceman, I guess I got lazy lol.

So a casting date of May7, and an engine build date of May 8, and a truck build in May. They got right with the program. May date separations are similar but a few more days in between

[mike16]

Originally Posted by Chevyland

What's up special-k

What I was saying. Was
There was a difference of about 200k of reliable driving time
Between our small block engines
And
The Ls engines of today

Typically around 100k or so, before a rebuild (70's)
Vs
300k many times on modern engines (2000's)

apples and oranges

the machining process's were/are different

fi vs carbs

the lubes used or unavailable then vs the lubes used and avilable now

and a comparrison simply based on the milage achieved then vs now is not entirely accurate

my company had early 70'strucks that burned propane. these trucks regularly got upwards of 300k miles on them. many volvo's and mecedese benze's got easily close to 300k miles on them. no. not diesles either.

I understand what your point is but milage alone is not the only factor that differentiates real engines from that 'other' type. many variables, variables not differences.

FI does help atomise todays fuel that carbs seem to have difficulty atomising.

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by mike16

apples and oranges

the machining process's were/are different

fi vs carbs

the lubes used or unavailable then vs the lubes used and avilable now

and a comparrison simply based on the milage achieved then vs now is not entirely accurate

my company had early 70'strucks that burned propane. these trucks regularly got upwards of 300k miles on them. many volvo's and mecedese benze's got easily close to 300k miles on them. no. not diesles either.

I understand what your point is but milage alone is not the only factor that differentiates real engines from that 'other' type. many variables, variables not differences.

FI does help atomise todays fuel that carbs seem to have difficulty atomising.

I am only a contractor
That has had a bunch of chevy trucks, in the last 30 years
Are you saying, if I rebuilt my 67-72 chevy engine
And used today's lubes
It would last longer?

I don't know how to work on carburetor
And
Definitely not today 's fuel injection
I don't even know how atomizing works

My only conclusion
Is
The old trucks went around 100k(or a little more if you were lucky)
And
My mid 90's and up trucks
Basically
Go to 300k
Just by changing the oil on time

I was once told
(Don't know if it is true or not)
When emissions came into play
All, the tolerances, had to be shored up on american vehicles
Therefore
They lasted longer
Like Mercedes and Porsche
Because, they were already ahead of us, by then
My father in law was a European mechanic. He has always said
Both of those cars have always been at the top
Their(tolerances)
Are almost like race engines

[FirstOwner69]

Regarding engine longevity, I agree with most of the reasons already stated including improved fuels and oils as well as improved tolerances, and machining. I don't recall anyone mentioning RPMs at highway speeds. Overdrive transmissions have reduced 65 MPH RPMs from about 3000 to closer to 2000. Hell, my '99 Vette with a 6-speed manual barely turns 2400 at 100 MPH!

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

Regarding engine longevity, I agree with most of the reasons already stated including improved fuels and oils as well as improved tolerances, and machining. I don't recall anyone mentioning RPMs at highway speeds. Overdrive transmissions have reduced 65 MPH RPMs from about 3000 to closer to 2000. Hell, my '99 Vette with a 6-speed manual barely turns 2400 at 100 MPH!

Good point👍
Like everything else
Everything
Just gets perfected in time

[DeadheadNM]

Im in the camp that values originality. For others who want to rebuild their original sb motors be mindful of decking the block as this can remove the codes from the machined pad on the rh side of the block. For fun here are the stamped codes on the original 350 motor and th 350 tranny now rebuilt and ready for more decades of use back in my Highlander Blazer: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...8&postcount=60 - i have the POP for same.

I drove to texas to get a code correct (albeit not original) 350 motor when i rebuilt my 72 k20 but bolted it to a 700r4

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Im in the camp that values originality.

I drove to texas to get a code correct (albeit not original) 350 motor when i rebuilt my 72 k20 but bolted it to a 700r4

This was/is common practice when restoring muscle car
Of the 50's,60's and early seventies
You see it advertised all the time when. These cars are being sold.
"Numbers Matching"

I had a 57 vette, back in the day. With incorrect motor
When it blew up.
I bought correct block from here out west
Had to get correct heads from a guy in Chicago
This was before internet was so dialed in
Hemings Motor News , was the google search option back then

When that car sold
It was worth many thousands more
Than it would have been
If it was not #s matching

I know, it is not as valuable to most on these trucks
But
I still am also fan of originality.

[FirstOwner69]

In post 44 I showed pictures of my Protect-O-Plate and the pad stamping. Here is a more readable mirror image of the P-O-P, the casting date from the rear of the block, a repeat of the engine date stamp, the TH400 tag, and the ID on the Eaton H052 axle .

- Engine cast date: K278= Nov 27, 1968 (not on P-O-P)
- Engine pad stamp: V1130XD= Nov 30 (1968) assembly. XD= 1969 350, turbo hydramatic, 4 barrel, C-10 to C-35 trucks.
- TH400 tag: 69T 328= 328th day (1968). 1968 was a leap year so this corresponds to Nov 23. 1968.
- Axle ID: JU1122J1= Nov 22 (1968) (P-O-P shows JU1120J. The axle is original. GM has been known to make mistakes.)

It's interesting that the selling dealer chose to put the miles at delivery (00034) on the P-O-P rather than the delivery date as on the other P-O-Ps shown on this thread.

[Coley]

The number one thing that has prolonged engine life and extended it up to the 300K and beyond mark....is electronic engine management.
Basically a new fuel injected engine is running in perfect tune 99.999% of the time with respect to air/fuel mixture, timing, etc.
Supposedly when you tear down a 100K motor now...inside it looks like new. No carbon deposits or plugged oil galleries, etc.
That is why the mileage is better as well....perfect, optimum tuning. Plus you can run higher compression again these days and if the engine starts to 'ping' and pre-detonate...the engine simply retards the timing automatically and electronically with the anti-knock sensors until it stops...thus protecting the engine.....ba-da-bing!
As a result they have been able to bump up the compression ratios again from the 1970 and 1980 engines...which were pretty low.

On the older carburated engines you were lucky if it stayed in original tune for a month. You would literally have to to tune it daily to have it compete for the near perfect range a modern engine runs in.

....basically not even a practical comparison.

Regardless...from a hobby standpoint....I still love tuning my old 350....carb and all!!

all Good
Coley