47-55.1 Trying to piece together a project, have questions

[68c10owner]

So I'm trying to piece together a truck project. I dont have the money to buy a complete running truck but I found a 1950 shortbed frame and a clean 1954 cab,doors, and a "47-53". Any issues mixing the years around with the 47-54 stuff? I know the 54 frames are different but didnt know if the mounting points would line up or if there would be crazy gaps in the sheet metal, ect. Im just trying to build something a little at a time. Not building a show truck. Will just be a driver.

[dsraven]

mr48 is the 47-54 guru so if no respones then pm him.
i know the beds have different angles on the top rail in the last years
the door hndles are different on the outside
some doors had one piece glass
frames were different around the engine front cross member and engine mounting

a factory assembly manual will be your friend

also try this site, it has a bunch of manuals from different years. mix and match

https://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.co...esto/index.htm

[leegreen]

hoods, grills and radiators were different between GMC and Chey but they will fit either cab. GMC front fenders had a hole in them for park lights chevrolet did not. Cosmetic differences to the box sides before/after '54 otherwise they will interchange. Grills changed at 54
Outside door handles changed in 50, the doors have different holes in them
vent windows added in 51 or 52, but doors fit the same

different dashes in 54 and up as well as windshield, the trim around it and cowl vent

rear cab mounts changed after 52, but some people convert to later style anyway

generally speaking, as long as you get hood, front fenders and grill that work together, they will work with your 54 cab. You might need to adjust radiator mount. Front cab mounts will be the same and then you can figure out rear ones

there are a lot of good details and measurements in the assembly manual, look on old car project website for them

Its all very doable to build the truck from parts of different years

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by leegreen

hoods, grills and radiators were different between GMC and Chey but they will fit either cab. GMC front fenders had a hole in them for park lights chevrolet did not. Cosmetic differences to the box sides before/after '54 otherwise they will interchange. Grills changed at 54
Outside door handles changed in 50, the doors have different holes in them
vent windows added in 51 or 52, but doors fit the same

different dashes in 54 and up as well as windshield, the trim around it and cowl vent

rear cab mounts changed after 52, but some people convert to later style anyway

generally speaking, as long as you get hood, front fenders and grill that work together, they will work with your 54 cab. You might need to adjust radiator mount. Front cab mounts will be the same and then you can figure out rear ones

there are a lot of good details and measurements in the assembly manual, look on old car project website for them

Its all very doable to build the truck from parts of different years

I appreciate the reply. I know there are differences between GMC and Chevy parts. And I know there were minor changes throughout the years.

I guess specifically what I'm asking is, will a 54 cab bolt up to a 1950 chassis? Will a 47-53 front sheet metal bolt up to the 54 cab? Ill be using a 47-53 bed since i know 1954 had a different chassis and bed. I just dont know if there are interchange parts throughout the years.

[leegreen]

>will a 54 cab bolt up to a 1950 chassis?
the front cab mounts yes
the rear cab mounts in '50 were rubber bushed shackles, if the frame has them then I 'think' they will bolt up to the 54 cab. If not you just need to find or make a mount much like the front cab mounts for the rear. People do this when the bushing in the shackles fail anyway

>Will a 47-53 front sheet metal bolt up to the 54 cab?
yes

the early bed should bolt down to the frame the same, it just has angled tops on the bed sides and stake pockets with beaded edges. cosmetic changes, few people will notice.

mr48chev will correct me if I have any of this wrong

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by leegreen

>will a 54 cab bolt up to a 1950 chassis?
the front cab mounts yes
the rear cab mounts in '50 were rubber bushed shackles, if the frame has them then I 'think' they will bolt up to the 54 cab. If not you just need to find or make a mount much like the front cab mounts for the rear. People do this when the bushing in the shackles fail anyway

>Will a 47-53 front sheet metal bolt up to the 54 cab?
yes

the early bed should bolt down to the frame the same, it just has angled tops on the bed sides and stake pockets with beaded edges. cosmetic changes, few people will notice.

mr48chev will correct me if I have any of this wrong

Ok, this is great info and is what I was looking for. To clarify, I dont have any parts yet. Im going to look at the frame on Sunday and then the cab and doors on Monday. He says he has fenders too but I might pass on those. I prefer the 47-53 style frontend anyway. I prefer the split windshield as well but this is just going to be a driver so Im not worried about it not being my absolute dream truck. Im just trying to build something somewhat on a budget.

[dsraven]

guys do frame swaps for newer frames under these trucks. there is a fella on the site who makes a kit to swap an s10 frame under these trucks. I know a guy who bought the kit for a earlier model chev and he is very impressed with the fit and finish
my point is that you could likely build a truck with the parts you have sourced. you just gotta possibly make a few parts by hand, like cab mounts, or modify the parts you have, like the rad support. it's something that xan be done as you go.
I suggest to figure out what you want first, as far as engine, trans, front and rear suspension, etc. then go from there in your quest for parts. do you want independent front suspension? different engine and trans combo? this may require work on the rear suspension due to the torque tube rear axle and how the rear axle is held to the rear springs. it also may require some thought and planning around a rad and fan combo cuz the space between the rad and water pump snout can get pretty tight. a different configuration for engine mounts, obviously, and a different trans mount. cutting the existing trans mount cross member out will likely be required for space but remember this is what ties the frame rails together near the front cab mount "wings" and without the original cross member the frame can twist under the weight of the cab and the torque from the engine. this means the front cab mounts cab take a beating cuz they are trying to do the job of that missing cross member. it can lead to metal fatigue and cracks around those mounts over time. there is a fix for it though, just build another stiffener into your plan. same goes for the front cross member where the stock engine mount bolts up. some guys cut this out but remember to strengthen the frame in the area so you don't have issues. if you want power steering with the solid axle it can be a little spendy to buy the kit that bolts up in the same place on the frame and anything you do for p/s will require the stock steering column to be cut off and remodelled at the bottom end to accept a u joint or rag joint style connector. keep in mind the drag link length may need to be adjusted if lowering the truck, otherwise you may get unwanted steering geometry issues, like bump steer. if deciding on stock solid axle vs an IFS cross member do a comparison in costs between rebuilding an old axle, brakes, and their upgrade possibilities, wheel bearings, springs, spring shackles, bushings, etc. some of this will need to be done at a machine shop unless you have the tools and reamer for kingpins etc. nif thinking about brake upgrades at least do the dual system master cylinder as it splits the brakes into front and rear circuits. that way if you have a problem with one of these circuits you at least have the other half to stop the truck and get it home, or whatever, for a repair. the old system will just lose ALL the brakes at once. it thinking of a power brake set up there are lots of builds on here to check. frame mounted can have some issues around mounting and clearance issues if you plan a different engine trans. a hydroboost will give you the best power boost and will take the least amount of space but you will need a power steering pump. disc fron and drum rear is all thats needed if you were thinking of brake upgrades. the master cylinder needs to be matched to the system. there are drum/drum, disc/drum and disc/disc master cylinders and different bore sizes depending on your wants/needs. a different engine combo may need a firewall modification for distributor and valve cover clearance. also, if changing the ride height, you may need to think about the wheel centering in the fender openings. if you get a plan for what you want there is lots of knowledge on this site. just tell us your plan and you will get lots of advice. then decide what YOU want to do.
have fun and good luck. post up lots of pics, we all love picks and we can probably give some advice based on what you have shown us. stuff like "if you use this with that then you need to do this because of that"

[dsraven]

I guess what I'm saying is for you to decide what you want before you source and purchase a bunch of parts you may not need or will be pricey to rebuild/modify for your wants. if building a stock truck then no problems sourcing the old stock parts. if a different engine/trans/suspension/brakes/ride height/etc is your want in the end then there are stock parts you will be placing in the scrap pile so buying them doesn't make sense, unless you have to take them in the deal. if going with the stock engine you will really want to hear it running and do a few tests on it so you don't end up spending money on a rebuild. that can get spendy rear quick.
anyway, if you post up what your end result is on your want list I am sure you will get lots of suggestions and a few do's and don'ts.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by dsraven

I guess what I'm saying is for you to decide what you want before you source and purchase a bunch of parts you may not need or will be pricey to rebuild/modify for your wants. if building a stock truck then no problems sourcing the old stock parts. if a different engine/trans/suspension/brakes/ride height/etc is your want in the end then there are stock parts you will be placing in the scrap pile so buying them doesn't make sense, unless you have to take them in the deal. if going with the stock engine you will really want to hear it running and do a few tests on it so you don't end up spending money on a rebuild. that can get spendy rear quick.
anyway, if you post up what your end result is on your want list I am sure you will get lots of suggestions and a few do's and don'ts.

I couldnt even read most of your original reply. You have to break that up into sections. That was a lot of info for 1 long paragraph.

I have wanted a AD truck for over 30 years now. I've followed builds and seen what others have done. I'm aware of the S10 frame swaps but thats not what I want. That swap opens up more issues that I dont want to deal with.

I have a plan for my build but I didnt post it because it wasnt relevant to my questions. I just needed to know about the body part interchangability. Ive always planned on buying a complete truck but the costs of decent project trucks have gotten ridiculous so when a 1950 shortbed frame popped up for $300 it got me thinking. Then I found a guy with a clean 1954 cab with doors and since I know the 1954 chassis were different, I wasnt sure if the later cabs had the mounts in a different location. I dont mind fabbing new mounts if needed.
.
I'm building a driver. It will have a Mustang II frontend and a leaf spring rear suspension but they will be aftermarket lowered leafs. It's going to have a SBC/auto set up. I'm sure some crossmembers will be removed but if it needs more supports I can do that as well. I have the mechanical ability to build this truck and fab parts as needed.

[dsraven]

hey, sorry. I'll try point form. would that be better?
-do you have a MII brand in mind?
-I'm sure you know, but they are not all created equal.
-some are a better design around the upper control arm mounting
-some are built with thicker walled tubing for control arms, brand name sealed ball joints, etc.
-heidts has a tech info page on their site. it explains a few points about understanding IFS and gives a good idea of what to look for in geometry etc. if you haven't done one before its good to be schooled before you get started
-a digital torpedo level can also be your friend. a torpedo level on top of a 4ft level, used as a straight edge, works well to get the frame set at your rake angle. torpedo level is short enough to be used on control arms and upper control arm mounts to get things dialed in
-I'm sure you have plans for rear suspension mounts etc, but if on a budget there are stock spring hangers available from newer trucks, ford ranger mounts come to mind, that may work for you and be budget friendly. I think leafs out back are a great idea, especially for budget purposes and getting it done quicker
-if you fab your own rear spring mounts or hangers, you can do whatever drop you want back there. it might be good to have a rough idea of what your rear axle weight will be so you can simulate that when installing and setting up the rear.
-I think the AD trucks have a tapered frame, fore to aft
-this link may have some data of interest to you

https://xr793.com/wp-content/uploads...ata-Sheets.pdf

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by dsraven

hey, sorry. I'll try point form. would that be better?
-do you have a MII brand in mind?
-I'm sure you know, but they are not all created equal.
-some are a better design around the upper control arm mounting
-some are built with thicker walled tubing for control arms, brand name sealed ball joints, etc.
-heidts has a tech info page on their site. it explains a few points about understanding IFS and gives a good idea of what to look for in geometry etc. if you haven't done one before its good to be schooled before you get started
-a digital torpedo level can also be your friend. a torpedo level on top of a 4ft level, used as a straight edge, works well to get the frame set at your rake angle. torpedo level is short enough to be used on control arms and upper control arm mounts to get things dialed in
-I'm sure you have plans for rear suspension mounts etc, but if on a budget there are stock spring hangers available from newer trucks, ford ranger mounts come to mind, that may work for you and be budget friendly. I think leafs out back are a great idea, especially for budget purposes and getting it done quicker
-if you fab your own rear spring mounts or hangers, you can do whatever drop you want back there. it might be good to have a rough idea of what your rear axle weight will be so you can simulate that when installing and setting up the rear.
-I think the AD trucks have a tapered frame, fore to aft
-this link may have some data of interest to you

https://xr793.com/wp-content/uploads...ata-Sheets.pdf

Listen, I know you are trying to be helpful. But I dont need to lay out my build plan for anyone for my specific questions to be answered. Ive been turning wrenches for over 35 years, I have installed Mustang II frontends before, and I know that TCI and other companies make leaf spring kits with new hangers and shackles. Thankfully my questions were answered and I can move on. Thanks everyone

[mr48chev]

I'm late to the party because I was out of town for a few days and then had trouble getting on the board.

The main difference between 47.2/53 trucks and 54.55.1 trucks of the same size is the windsheld and the dash. The other difference is that the kickup over the rear axle on 54/55.1 is about 2 inches less than on earler 3100 trucks.

All push button doors bolt right on the 54 cab. 47/51 doors will fit but you have to fight with cobbling the strikers around as turn down handle and push button handle strikers are completely different. That is also the battle with using 47/50 one piece window doors on 52 or later cabs.

As far as the frame, I have a 54 frame under my 48 right now and the big difference is that the 54 frame has about 2 inches less kickup over the rear axle than earler frames do because the floor of the 54 bed is that two inches lower. You can bolt an early bed right on a 54 frame using the correct wood blocks but have put mini tubs in or raise the floor in a 54 box to put it on an early frame.

The earler hood and fenders will bolt right on the 54 cab but you have to use the grill that goes with the fenders either way.

First photo being 47-53 3000 series


This being a 54 fender with the rounded corner for the grill and the indent for the park light.
URL=https://hosting.photobucket.com/c5e80f58-8b3a-4ad3-b9a8-69c8e75f6874/a3024dd7-efe5-47c4-9b99-9609fa6ea182.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds][/URL]

If you are out looking at fenders off the truck these two photos are how to tell a 3000 series fender from a 4000 (big truck) and larger out in the wild.



Note the difference on big truck fenders.


A few years ago some guy on FB bought a big truck nose for his 3100 a couple hundred miles from home that someone swore was a 3100 front end and didn't figure it out until he got home.

This is my 48 with a 4000 series hood sitting on it to show the difference


Here with it's own hood.

[Rickysnickers]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

Listen, I know you are trying to be helpful. But I dont need to lay out my build plan for anyone for my specific questions to be answered. Ive been turning wrenches for over 35 years, I have installed Mustang II frontends before, and I know that TCI and other companies make leaf spring kits with new hangers and shackles. Thankfully my questions were answered and I can move on. Thanks everyone

Listen, that sounds rather snarky. dsraven, Mr48, and many others are more than willing to hep you. Since they are trying to do that, maybe appreciate their assistance rather than gripe about the way dsraven lays out his advice, referring to the first paragraph he posted.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by Rickysnickers

Listen, that sounds rather snarky. dsraven, Mr48, and many others are more than willing to hep you. Since they are trying to do that, maybe appreciate their assistance rather than gripe about the way dsraven lays out his advice, referring to the first paragraph he posted.

LOL, sorry kid. My old eyes have a hard time reading long run on paragraphs from my phone.

I simply asked about body and frame interchangability. Thats it. It doesnt matter what my build plan is for these questions to be answered.

Im sorry if my comments offend you. Not really. But I dont need to lay out my entire build plan to know if a later cab will fit an earlier frame. Or if early sheet metal will fit the later cab. How hard is it to answer the question asked? Not hard at all because Mr48 and others who actually answered my questions were very helpful. Asking my build plan isnt. Maybe I'm just old school but I dont feel the need to post my ability, experience or build plan when I ask a question like this.

As I said before, thanks to those who answered my questions.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I'm late to the party because I was out of town for a few days and then had trouble getting on the board.

The main difference between 47.2/53 trucks and 54.55.1 trucks of the same size is the windsheld and the dash. The other difference is that the kickup over the rear axle on 54/55.1 is about 2 inches less than on earler 3100 trucks.

All push button doors bolt right on the 54 cab. 47/51 doors will fit but you have to fight with cobbling the strikers around as turn down handle and push button handle strikers are completely different. That is also the battle with using 47/50 one piece window doors on 52 or later cabs.

As far as the frame, I have a 54 frame under my 48 right now and the big difference is that the 54 frame has about 2 inches less kickup over the rear axle than earler frames do because the floor of the 54 bed is that two inches lower. You can bolt an early bed right on a 54 frame using the correct wood blocks but have put mini tubs in or raise the floor in a 54 box to put it on an early frame.

The earler hood and fenders will bolt right on the 54 cab but you have to use the grill that goes with the fenders either way.

First photo being 47-53 3000 series


This being a 54 fender with the rounded corner for the grill and the indent for the park light.
URL=https://hosting.photobucket.com/c5e80f58-8b3a-4ad3-b9a8-69c8e75f6874/a3024dd7-efe5-47c4-9b99-9609fa6ea182.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds][/URL]

If you are out looking at fenders off the truck these two photos are how to tell a 3000 series fender from a 4000 (big truck) and larger out in the wild.



Note the difference on big truck fenders.


A few years ago some guy on FB bought a big truck nose for his 3100 a couple hundred miles from home that someone swore was a 3100 front end and didn't figure it out until he got home.

This is my 48 with a 4000 series hood sitting on it to show the difference


Here with it's own hood.

Than you for taking the time to post all of thst. It was very helpful.

[Rickysnickers]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

LOL, sorry kid. My old eyes have a hard time reading long run on paragraphs from my phone.

I simply asked about body and frame interchangability. Thats it. It doesnt matter what my build plan is for these questions to be answered.

Im sorry if my comments offend you. Not really. But I dont need to lay out my entire build plan to know if a later cab will fit an earlier frame. Or if early sheet metal will fit the later cab. How hard is it to answer the question asked? Not hard at all because Mr48 and others who actually answered my questions were very helpful. Asking my build plan isnt. Maybe I'm just old school but I dont feel the need to post my ability, experience or build plan when I ask a question like this.

As I said before, thanks to those who answered my questions.

Apparently you know how to endear yourself to people. Take their advice or not. Asking for more info on your project is in no way an afront to you or your abilities.

With all that you said above, and the continual snarky responses, consider this a warning.

Rick

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by Rickysnickers

Apparently you know how to endear yourself to people. Take their advice or not. Asking for more info on your project is in no way an afront to you or your abilities.

With all that you said above, and the continual snarky responses, consider this a warning.

Rick

LOL a warning? Are you threatening me now? I'll repeat it again because clearly you didnt comprehend it before. I asked very specific questions. None of them had anything to do with what my build plan was for the chassis. I only asked if the later cab would work on the early chassis. Mr48 and Lee answered the questions that I asked.

For some reason ypu have taken it upon yourself to be the hall monitor here. Why dont you just worry about your own posts and stay out of mine

[mr48chev]

Don't get your undies in a knot when the grammer police show up and flat state that your run on sentences and what not are hard to read. Even on a phone one can take the time to use proper punctuation and write a readable sentence or paragraph. I won't say anyting about spelling if you are on a phone though. If you have read enough of what I write as the other guys have you know that often as not I go back and correct spelling or wording to make things read right or some times make sence. Many of us here come from the age long before computers showed up and learned to make proper sentences and paragraphs and not short cut.

Side note: if you were to lay a 51 3100 frame and a 54 3100 frame side by side on saw horses you will see two differences. The crossmember that goes under the bellhousing and the kickup over the rear axle. The big deal being that you can't lower the back of a 54 frame much without a C notch.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Don't get your undies in a knot when the grammer police show up and flat state that your run on sentences and what not are hard to read. Even on a phone one can take the time to use proper punctuation and write a readable sentence or paragraph. I won't say anyting about spelling if you are on a phone though. If you have read enough of what I write as the other guys have you know that often as not I go back and correct spelling or wording to make things read right or some times make sence. Many of us here come from the age long before computers showed up and learned to make proper sentences and paragraphs and not short cut.

Side note: if you were to lay a 51 3100 frame and a 54 3100 frame side by side on saw horses you will see two differences. The crossmember that goes under the bellhousing and the kickup over the rear axle. The big deal being that you can't lower the back of a 54 frame much without a C notch.

I dont get hung up on spelling or grammar but I only have my phone so trying to read a really long paragraph is difficult for me. But Ive moved past all of that.

Mr48 I do appreciate you taking the time to give your input. I actually decided against both the early frame and the later cab for now. Im probably just going to hold out for a complete truck at this point.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

LOL a warning? Are you threatening me now? I'll repeat it again because clearly you didnt comprehend it before. I asked very specific questions. None of them had anything to do with what my build plan was for the chassis. I only asked if the later cab would work on the early chassis. Mr48 and Lee answered the questions that I asked.

For some reason ypu have taken it upon yourself to be the hall monitor here. Why dont you just worry about your own posts and stay out of mine

This is your reply to a volunteer staff member, but you feel he has an issue with you? No sir, not gonna fly. Thread closed try again.

Just fyi, I am the one that appointed him Staff for tge website .. not hall monitor.